McDonalds ordering screens, Braehead.

[Ross.]

46 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Bit surprised that we spend less public money per capita on healthcare than the US, despite us having a higher life expectancy.

Surprised to see Switzerland so high on the public spending side of things, but I'm assuming they will count elderly care as health spending. Nursing home places are provided free of charge to most here, though if you have cash you can pay for a private gaff which operates to a higher standard.

[Gaz FFC]

6 hours ago, Snafu said:

Keep mind in a few years time they will have left University or College and be earning more money than you.

Aye and probably 15 - 20 years younger too

Edited November 13, 2019 by Gaz FFC

[jamamafegan]

Your suggestion here is that people who work in McDonalds don't work hard, never have worked hard and never will work hard. People end up in these jobs for a whole manner of different reasons and I'm sure there are very hard workers in these places who have their eyes on either moving jobs or a promotion at some point (there's probably Uni students working in there to pay their way too). If skilled workers aren't earning enough money then it's on them to unionise and negotiate what they feel is acceptable, none of it is the fault of McDonalds workers who are automatically branded morons by large parts of the population purely because of where they work.
They won't get anything near £15 an hour anyway.

I didn’t mean to brand McDonalds workers as lazy morons, didn’t mean for it to come across like that anyway - the point I’m trying to make is that unless you are a supervisor/manager at McDonalds I’m guessing you’re going to be working an unskilled job behind the checkout or in the kitchen. As another poster said, they knew people who worked there who are now doctors etc and I know people who worked there who are now in skilled positions in a different line of work. McDonalds was never going to be somewhere where these people would stay and make a career out of it, they just worked there to keep themselves ticking over and make a bit of money until they got what they wanted elsewhere. I just can’t help but feel that some burger flippin’, McFlurry tubbin’, French fry shovellin’ McDonalds worker asking for more money is sticking a finger up to the people who studied/worked hard for years to get into a qualified and skilled position. If they really want more money at McDonalds then they should move up the ladder and earn it IMO.

[Hedgecutter]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

Alternatively, those same taxpayers realise that they don't mind paying a bit of extra money to get a healthcare service that is properly resourced with motivated and valued staff. If every policy was just about minimising the tax burden then we'd end up with no NHS, no welfare state and no public services. That is essentially the direction the Tories want to take us in, and therefore their aim is to make people think like you do - ie "why should I pay more tax for X, Y or Z when I don't use it".

This is what cheeses me off about the Tories slagging off the Scottish government about how they've turned it into the most taxed part of the UK.

This is a part of the UK where I've had free university tuition that has allowed me to get a skilled job and pay more tax into the system than I would have otherwise, claim ongoing repeat prescriptions, bus passes etc, etc... and you know what?  I'm happy to pay that little bit more into the system when I can afford it and it helps improve the lives of others like it has done for me. 

If anything, I'm actually rather proud that I live in that part of the UK that isn't as motivated by greed through penny pinching and wilfully and knowingly shafting the less well off to do it.  The blue will hopefully soon get wiped from the political map north of the border (come on Dumfries, you need the EU more than the Tories), and it'll be absolutely glorious, especially if they need to work out which English constituency MP will  be the Scottish Secretary.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Hedgecutter

[Gaz FFC]

8 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

This is what cheeses me off about the Tories slagging off the Scottish government about how they've turned it into the most taxed part of the UK.

This is a part of the UK where I've had free university tuition that has allowed me to get a skilled job and pay more tax into the system than I would have otherwise, claim ongoing repeat prescriptions, bus passes etc, etc... and you know what?  I'm happy to pay that little bit more into the system when I can afford it and it helps improve the lives of others like it has done for me. 

If anything, I'm actually rather proud that I live in that part of the UK that isn't as motivated by greed through penny pinching and wilfully and knowingly shafting the less well off to do it.  The blue will hopefully soon get wiped from the political map north of the border (come on Dumfries, you need the EU more than the Tories), and it'll be absolutely glorious, especially if they need to work out which English constituency MP will  be the Scottish Secretary.

The Tories complaining about tax paid is excellent value considering the Tory policy of making sure the rich pay as little as possible.

[Miguel Sanchez]

I've been in a McDonalds twice in the past ~six years

Once was in 24 hour branch Leeds on a Saturday night, with security guards when the screen was the only way to order. It was like being an Argos.

The other time was in Edinburgh, where there was one woman in front of me who took about eight years to order whatever she was getting. Since it was late and my train wasn't due for about twenty minutes I waited rather than use the screen. The customer in that case was significantly more slack-jawed and useless then the worker.

[Hedgecutter]

37 minutes ago, yoda said:

The attitude that people who work in McDonald's haven't worked as hard as tradesmen or people who went to university is horrible. It's misplaced snobbery and isn't too far away from the "deserving poor" argument.

Jordan Belfort's setup worked for me because I worked hard for it, and if it doesn't work for you, it's because you're lazy, and you should get a job at McDonald's.

Eta: needs the video imo.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Hedgecutter

[yoda]

26 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

2) Supply and demand will dictate this.  When you're in a job that pretty much any high school drop out with functioning hands could manage (if they get through an interview without stabbing somebody) then it's always likely that they'll get paid the bare minimum, especially if there's a steady line of people able and willing to take that role on.  Comes back to the "soliders should get paid top footballers wages" shite.  It's all business.

I'm not criticising you specifically but this "it's all supply and demand" is an outdated approach to how labour markets work. 

Noah Smith has some useful insight:

http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2017/04/why-101-model-doesnt-work-for-labor.html

http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2016/12/an-econ-theory-falsified.html

[scottsdad]

My kids like McDonalds. Whenever I eat one of their meals I end up feeling a bit ill after a couple of hours. Now I just buy them happy meals and order a coffee.

[Hedgecutter]

1 minute ago, scottsdad said:

My kids like McDonalds. Whenever I eat one of their meals I end up feeling a bit ill after a couple of hours. 

I know I'd certainly feel ill from guilt if I took a child to McDonald's and then ate their happy meal.  What's next, their advent calendars?

[Ross.]

29 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

some burger flippin’

Never worked in McDonalds but I'm sure the grills they use cook both sides. No flipping necessary...

[Hedgecutter]

What also makes me proud about Scotland is that we're 4 pages into this thread and not a single person has written macdonalds.

Happy days.

 

 

[The Moonster]

34 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

I didn’t mean to brand McDonalds workers as lazy morons, didn’t mean for it to come across like that anyway - the point I’m trying to make is that unless you are a supervisor/manager at McDonalds I’m guessing you’re going to be working an unskilled job behind the checkout or in the kitchen. As another poster said, they knew people who worked there who are now doctors etc and I know people who worked there who are now in skilled positions in a different line of work. McDonalds was never going to be somewhere where these people would stay and make a career out of it, they just worked there to keep themselves ticking over and make a bit of money until they got what they wanted elsewhere. I just can’t help but feel that some burger flippin’, McFlurry tubbin’, French fry shovellin’ McDonalds worker asking for more money is sticking a finger up to the people who studied/worked hard for years to get into a qualified and skilled position. If they really want more money at McDonalds then they should move up the ladder and earn it IMO.

 

I don't think that logic applies very well. McDonalds workers aren't sticking the finger up to anyone, they're chancing their arm at getting better pay and a union - it's not coming out any Uni students pocket (unless they eat at McDonalds) and seems an entirely reasonable position for poorly paid workers to take. If people who have studied/worked hard for years (although I dispute that McDonalds workers aren't included in that bracket) and find themselves earning less than a guy in McDonalds then I'm sorry but that's their problem. If they want to unionise in whatever industry they're in and argue that they deserve to be paid more than McDonalds workers then that's their shout. I reckon there are skilled workers in my company who earn less than someone in McDonalds, and I've heard people in here say they can earn more working in Asda. My advice to them is fight for higher pay or go and work at these places, moaning about it online or to your fellow workers won't change a thing.

 

[Ross.]

6 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I don't think that logic applies very well. McDonalds workers aren't sticking the finger up to anyone, they're chancing their arm at getting better pay and a union - it's not coming out any Uni students pocket (unless they eat at McDonalds) and seems an entirely reasonable position for poorly paid workers to take. If people who have studied/worked hard for years (although I dispute that McDonalds workers aren't included in that bracket) and find themselves earning less than a guy in McDonalds then I'm sorry but that's their problem. If they want to unionise in whatever industry they're in and argue that they deserve to be paid more than McDonalds workers then that's their shout. I reckon there are skilled workers in my company who earn less than someone in McDonalds, and I've heard people in here say they can earn more working in Asda. My advice to them is fight for higher pay or go and work at these places, moaning about it online or to your fellow workers won't change a thing.

The whole discussion is a sad indictment on humanity. We have been well and truly taken in by the "5 monkeys experiment".

[DigOutYourSoul]

A good friend of mine recently graduated and gained her first job as a Physio at the age of 28, having worked in Mcdonalds for nearly 10 years from leaving School. She decided when we, those who went to Uni straight from School, graduated that she wanted to move into a professional career - as the only way to get more money or progress at Mcdonalds would be to move into a management position. She decided to better her career opportunities by moving into a highly skilled field, working full time at Mcdonalds to fund her university, while also doing physio placements on the side. 

My biggest issue with this demand for £15 an hour for unskilled work, although we all know they'll get nothing near that, is that it surely de-incentivises people like my friend above from wanting to move into a skilled field to better their career opportunities?

There is also a distinct difference between hard work and skilled work. I've worked in retail, and customer service jobs and there's no doubting that sometimes it's not easy. However, the issue regards supply and demand is that for the most part unskilled can also be done by almost anybody. 

[Bairnardo]

The idea that folk have the right to tell others what wage they should be willing to fight for and when they should shut up and eat their cereal

My fucking god! 

If the McDonalds workers are being made aware of the inherent risks involved with industrial action, and their trade unions members are guiding thìs, then who the f**k is anyone else to tell them what they are and aren't entitled to? Imagine thinking you have more right to an opinion on the skillset and subsequent pay rate of a worker than they have to try and better it. 

I utterly despair of folk in this country sometimes. 

[Venti]

Just head over to Five Guys. Cajun fries are great.

[DigOutYourSoul]

Fwiw, on the assumption of an average 16 hour week for McDonald’s employees: raising all 120,000(approx) UK employees wage by £6 per hour would cost McDonald’s £600m per year.

Holding all else constant that would have resulted in them making a nearly £300m loss last year in the UK.

[pozbaird]

5 hours ago, MONKMAN said:

McDonalds workers striking for £15 an hour.

If they don’t ask, they certainly won’t recieve.

[ICTChris]

Just head over to Five Guys. Cajun fries are great.

Going by the price of a Five Guys their staff must be in £15 a minute,p let alone an hour.