sjc Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: You really don't get it. Israel Israel Israel Israel. That's what its all about. I can tell you why Trump decided to do this, and also relocate the US embassy to Jersualem, in two words - Jarrod Kushner. To focus solely on Israel would be downplaying Saudi Arabia's influence..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, sjc said: To focus solely on Israel would be downplaying Saudi Arabia's influence..... Perhaps. But the long-term geopolitical aims in that region have always been dictated by Israel, and for Israel Iran is the holy grail. They have been pushing for this for years and years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 You really don't get it. Israel Israel Israel Israel. That's what its all about. I can tell you why Trump decided to do this, and also relocate the US embassy to Jersualem, in two words - Jarrod Kushner.This is bollocks of the first degree.I think you'll find that this has a lot more to do with Saudi Arabia than Israel. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyCromarty Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 10 hours ago, D.A.F.C said: Threatening to attack Iranian cultural targets now. Yep, that will calm things down. I think it would be more Ahwaz the oil centre for Iran, Bushir Airport and Kharg Island which is Iran's main oil terminal outlet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyCromarty Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 11 hours ago, MixuFixit said: Matt Stoller asked an interesting thing that I didn't know the answer to: why does America have such a rage boner for Iran? Yes they humiliated them in the 70s but so did Vietnam and now relations are relatively normal there. What's different about Iran? Especially now the USA is independent of Middle East oil. Difficult one but it could be who controls the oil and that is mostly Total the French company who actually run Kharg Island, the Americans fully supported the Shah, as did BP, who gave them full access to the country and then Ayatollah Khomeini returned from France where he had been cossetted and turned the country upside down. Since then other western oil countries have had payment problems and had to pull out, for instance one Canadian land drilling company left 15 rigs there as payment through Kish Island, which is the Island banks the Iranians use to move money, was not forthcoming. Another aspect is that being Fars with a rich heritage they are fiercely independent, a trait that the Americans found it difficult to do business with. Americans abroad in business and daily life expect to bulldoze their way to get their way, as in 'I'm American who the feck are you'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 12 hours ago, MixuFixit said: Matt Stoller asked an interesting thing that I didn't know the answer to: why does America have such a rage boner for Iran? Yes they humiliated them in the 70s but so did Vietnam and now relations are relatively normal there. What's different about Iran? Especially now the USA is independent of Middle East oil. Shale isn't producing as well as they thought so it might be independent just now but that might not last long term. Even in the short term, the shale producers are highly leveraged and a higher oil price helps them pay back their debts. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Is-The-Shale-Boom-Running-On-Fumes.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 13 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: This is bollocks of the first degree. I think you'll find that this has a lot more to do with Saudi Arabia than Israel. No that's incredibly naive. This is 99.999999999% about Israel. All other considerations pale into insignificance, if you have been following for the last twenty years that would be obvious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: No that's incredibly naive. This is 99.999999999% about Israel. All other considerations pale into insignificance, if you have been following for the last twenty years that would be obvious. Nonsense. America acts in it's own interests. Israel is simply a consequence of US imperialism 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Israel and Saudi Arabia are both malign influences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 No that's incredibly naive. This is 99.999999999% about Israel. All other considerations pale into insignificance, if you have been following for the last twenty years that would be obvious. No it's not, Israel are a pawn in this. It's about oil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: 26 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: No that's incredibly naive. This is 99.999999999% about Israel. All other considerations pale into insignificance, if you have been following for the last twenty years that would be obvious. No it's not, Israel are a pawn in this. It's about oil I posted this article in the Trump thread, however it's probably more relevant here if anything and interestingly it was penned back in 2018. https://www.oil-price.net/en/articles/iran-tensions-150-dollar-oil-price.php 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Been an awful lot ot Saudi Aircraft toing and froing to the states recently. This twitter account is a good follow. https://twitter.com/CivMilAir?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Israel and Saudi Arabia are both malign influences. I would suspect that the Israelis won't be too amused with Trump at the moment. Don't get me wrong - they are not averse to the odd assassination or two - I think they'd have been a damn sight more subtle if they were going to do it.The Saudis on the other hand . . . subtlety has never been their strong suit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Israel is a massive domestic consideration for Trump. Contracts with Saudi are also crucial. If the US steps out, Russia will step in. Shale oil may meet US needs internally but there is a lot of oil and dollars to lose by walking away. It always comes back to power and money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 26 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: I would suspect that the Israelis won't be too amused with Trump at the moment. Don't get me wrong - they are not averse to the odd assassination or two - I think they'd have been a damn sight more subtle if they were going to do it. The Saudis on the other hand . . . subtlety has never been their strong suit. Subtle like when they were murdering Iranian scientists all over the world? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 3 hours ago, HTG said: Israel is a massive domestic consideration for Trump. Contracts with Saudi are also crucial. If the US steps out, Russia will step in. Shale oil may meet US needs internally but there is a lot of oil and dollars to lose by walking away. It always comes back to power and money. In this case I’m assuming you’re including Trump’s attempts at deflection within ‘power’. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 26 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: In this case I’m assuming you’re including Trump’s attempts at deflection within ‘power’. I wouldn't read too much of anything into Trump. He's such a narcissistic lunatic that he'll fit into anything that feels like it may increase his money or power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 33 minutes ago, HTG said: I wouldn't read too much of anything into Trump. He's such a narcissistic lunatic that he'll fit into anything that feels like it may increase his money or power. The timing of this escalation screams ‘deflection from Impeachment’. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 10 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: The timing of this escalation screams ‘deflection from Impeachment’. You scream total bell end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Subtle like when they were murdering Iranian scientists all over the world? Deniability is at the centre of Kidon's operations - the last thing they would be doing is to openly target their victim and then boosting about it afterwards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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