Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[DeeTillEhDeh]

What are your views on EU membership?

Can't talk for Wee Wullie but it was the final nudge towards supporting independence for me.

 

I've always been pretty much a pro-European federalist - I spoiled my paper in 2014 - something I regret.

 

The SNP have been the only consistent party on EU membership - and independence within the EU is as about as closs to federalism as we'll get.

 

I didn't expect the Tories to react any d differently after the EU result - the real disappointment for me was Labour's sitting on the fence attitude. The Lib Dems were never going to be a choice given their selling out over austerity. In any case, I was politically (independence aside) closer to the SNP's social democracy, even before this point, it did not take much of a shift to support them.

 

[Arthur Orton]

17 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Quite interesting how people’s views have changed politically based on the handling of an unforeseen unprecedented pandemic.

A pandemic that has been managed considerably better by numerous other leaders around the globe.

That's the crux of the matter, it's called effective governance.

It was an opportunity for the SNP to show how they can manage major decisons, they haven't done very well hence the reasons they are being questioned.

But you're an educated man, you know that already.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Tynierose

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Dunno this is quite a heavily snp leaning website 

Possibly more a gender/age thing - I've found younger male friends tend to be the ones who want things opened up faster - older friends and women I know tend to be more cautious.

[Marshmallo]

4 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Falkirk are shit m8.

At least this point is a lot better than the dross I quoted 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

9 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

At least this point is a lot better than the dross I quoted 

Play the poster not the post.

[D.A.F.C]

A pandemic that has been managed considerably better by numerous other leaders around the globe.
That's the crux of the matter, it's called effective governance.
It was an opportunity for the SNP to show how they can manage major decisons, they haven't done very well hence the reasons they are being questioned.
But you're an educated man, you know that already.

Seems like snp fans have deflected all the blame onto England and also stated that scotland couldn't survive in a crisis because england needs to bail them out.
Pretty sure we could have stopped mass gatherings, stopped the care home fiasco and stockpiled some PPE without someone else.

[peasy23]

Update from the daughter's school yesterday. When they go back in August S1 to S3 will start at 8.50 am, have 2 x 75 minute periods, and go home at 11.20 am. Only positive is that they will be in all 5 days. Can't see them having any practical classes at all.

S4-S6 will be in for 2 x 85 min periods in the afternoons.

[madwullie]

23 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Crazy that people have opinions on something so major which has impacted every aspect of their lives

I know you're being glib, but for eg a glance about twitter shows a lot of the rabid snp no matter what supporters are still very much behind everything the snp do, and piling on anyone that has a different opinion.

I have been away from here for a couple of years, but I'd have expected more of that type of snp supporter to be on here. It's good it's not like that, but I've found it surprising. 

 

[madwullie]

2 minutes ago, madwullie said:

I know you're being glib, but for eg a glance about twitter shows a lot of the rabid snp no matter what supporters are still very much behind everything the snp do, and piling on anyone that has a different opinion.

I have been away from here for a couple of years, but I'd have expected more of that type of snp supporter to be on here. It's good it's not like that, but I've found it surprising. 

 

I suppose my point was as well, are people going to be critical of whatever their respective govts do just because its their govt and they feel the whole thing has been badly handled. It might explain the bad feeling down south about going too quickly while at the same time similar bad feeling up here about going too slowly. It doesn't seem to be because there's some mythical haply medium between the two approaches 

[madwullie]

8 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

Update from the daughter's school yesterday. When they go back in August S1 to S3 will start at 8.50 am, have 2 x 75 minute periods, and go home at 11.20 am. Only positive is that they will be in all 5 days. Can't see them having any practical classes at all.

S4-S6 will be in for 2 x 85 min periods in the afternoons.

What authority is that mate? Do you know if that's the policy across the region or if individual schools have had more of a say? 

[peasy23]

What authority is that mate? Do you know if that's the policy across the region or if individual schools have had more of a say? 

Glasgow. I'm guessing it might have to vary from school to school, her school has 3 entrances so they can use one for each age group.

[RH33]

4 minutes ago, madwullie said:

What authority is that mate? Do you know if that's the policy across the region or if individual schools have had more of a say? 

My colleuge is north Ayrshire and A-L surnames in Mon/Tue and rest Thu/Fri.

[Todd_is_God]

36 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Can't talk for Wee Wullie but it was the final nudge towards supporting independence for me.

I've always been pretty much a pro-European federalist - I spoiled my paper in 2014 - something I regret.

The SNP have been the only consistent party on EU membership - an independence within the EU is as about as closs to federalism as we'll get.

Likewise.

It was his "small percentage of population but equal partner is impossible" point I was asking about.

He claims it would be absolutely impossible within the UK, yet this is exactly what the EU offer.

[madwullie]

My boys are in slc primary and theyre planning for half school Monday Tuesday, clean wed, then rest Thurs Fri. If the numbers keep going the way they are I reckon they'll be back as close to normal as absolutely possible tho, maybe with 1m distancing 

[D.A.F.C]

1 minute ago, MixuFruit said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The care homes, PPE and mass gatherings issues absolutely deserve criticism. But anyone who thinks the Scottish or Welsh governments could do much different to England going into this without the ability to sort out a furlough scheme is being a bit unrealistic.

By all means be angry and write letters to your representatives and their rivals letting them know your vote is up for grabs but don't pretend they could do much different on this central issue if England didn't.

 

 

 

 

 

Here’s a question. If there was a future pandemic considering Scotland’s dependence on oil, tourism and all the other industries that have been effected would we have been worse off being part of the uk or independent?

Not having a go just it’s that we seem to be vulnerable.

[RH33]

30 minutes ago, madwullie said:

My boys are in slc primary and theyre planning for half school Monday Tuesday, clean wed, then rest Thurs Fri. If the numbers keep going the way they are I reckon they'll be back as close to normal as absolutely possible tho, maybe with 1m distancing 

Renfrewshire issuing days and classes on Monday. I’ve a feeling mine will be in end of week as kids have S surname and seems be first way to leet it. 

However the nursery within a school I work in isn’t closing on Wednesdays for deep clean.

I do think it’ll change before they actually go back.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Seems like snp fans have deflected all the blame onto England and also stated that scotland couldn't survive in a crisis because england needs to bail them out.

Pretty sure we could have stopped mass gatherings, stopped the care home fiasco and stockpiled some PPE without someone else.

The whole care home stuff in hindsight might have been an issue but where were these voices in March? The evidence from Italy at the time was that hospitals were going to be swamped and freeing up bed spaces was one of the few options until NHS Louisa Jordan was in place.

 

So, some say - you should have tested those returning to care homes - given that there wasn't the testing capacity - the DNA of the virus was not made public until 19 January it is expecting bloody miracles to create and release a reliable test and to mass produce it. Even now the test is still giving a high level of false negatives - I've seen estimates put as high as 30% - that means one in 4.5 tests marked as negative could have been a Covid-19 carrier. False positives are estimated to be at the 20% mark (1 in 5 tests) - yes testing can help but it is not a magic bullet. The fact that NHS hasn't been run over is because of decisions made in March - never easy and I certainly don't envy anyone who had to make them knowing that it might cause deaths - it was always a weighing up scenario - an overwhelmed NHS and more deaths or an NHS coping but more deaths in the community. It certainly isn't black and white.

 

Shortages of PPE - again not surprising - the worldwide demand for PPE increased by several factors above the normal demand - manufacturers could not produce fast enough - we even had the sordid spectacle of the US government indulging in modern day piracy for supplies already bought by other Western governments.

 

Where there is a case to answer is PPE in care homes - not because the Scottish Government were not supplying it quickly enough - but because care homes, in the chase for profits, had not stocked the levels they should have had for a normal situation. These are the same care homes who employed agency staff and thought it was a good idea to move them between different care homes. The same care homes that covered up infections and didn't inform staff or residents. When I see the likes of Robert Kilgour whining about this it makes my blood boil - these people have charged the elderly fortunes for years, using underpaid staff, and cutting corners all in the name of profit.

 

 

For me, if there is a fundamental failure it is in pandemic planning itself - that isn't a Scottish Government responsibility but the UK government - it's they who ignored the recommendations of Cygnus - it is they who downscaled pandemic planning.

 

Beyond this there are structural reasons why the health and care sector could not cope:

 

* Nearly a decade of underfunding due to Westminster austerity measures

* Unmanageable workloads, leading to stress and burnout and a recruitment/retention crisis

* Lack of investment and training in new technology

* An ageing population and steep increase in demand for health services

 

Almost all of these have their roots in chronic underfunding driven by HM Treasury decisions.

 

As I said before, I've no problem with any government being held accountable - but any review of the response to Covid-19 (and there should be one) should not be looking just at the events during the crisis but the landscape beforehand. It should also be based on clear defined data, allowing comparisons - not back of an envelope calculations by journalists and politically opportunistic politicians who are armchair hindsight experts.

 

I don't think it's been helped either that the scientists themselves have not always been consistent - if you are relying on that advice but there is contradictory advice (SAGE's inclusive advice with children is a good example) then politicians decisions may be flawed.

 

Let's ask be honest - some attacks on the Scottish Government (and the UK government) are motivated, not by making government accountable, but by sheer political opportunism and mischief-making.

 

The issues are complex but some of the analysis doing the rounds is simplistic hindsight pish of the first degree.

 

 

[Michael W]

2 hours ago, mizfit said:

 

 

It’s definitely changed I think.
In May there was a feeling of wanting to take it slower up here and let England move fast.

 

 

This is mostly just opponents having something to beat the government with, I reckon. Somewhere else in the UK things are different and so that should be immediately equalised and the UK/Scottish Government is making an arse of it by not doing so. 

On one hand - Why are people in England allowed to do this and we can't? Economy in tatters! 

On the other - Too fast! Scotland isn't doing this and people will die! 

In Scotland's case there's probably the added aspect that a lot of people are fed up now, which probably adds to the pressure. 

[Dan Steele]

16 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Where there is a case to answer is PPE in care homes - not because the Scottish Government were not supplying it quickly enough - but because care homes, in the chase for profits, had not stocked the levels they should have had for a normal situation. These are the same care homes who employed agency staff and thought it was a good idea to move them between different care homes. The same care homes that covered up infections and didn't inform staff or residents.

A chase for profits at the expense of the elderly in need of specialist care, many at end of life, is what drives care home companies. Staff working under intense pressure before the pandemic and stretched to breaking point is a disgrace. I've said it before, strip the private element out and bring all care homes under SG/Council control. A National Care Service alongside National Health Service (Scotland) and provide the complete cradle to grave service.

[Fife Saint]

Florida have fucked it.