Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[MP_MFC]

They're definitely ratcheting up the fear down south on their situation so not surprised that the talking heads in Scotland are beginning to do the same.

[bendan]

8 minutes ago, 101 said:

 

Or can you become a carrier even once you have been vaccinated? In which case that's only a problem until you have vaccinated those most at risk because the NHS should be able to cope with the number of hospitalisations that result from the Under50's that don't have other medical issues

It's not known yet if (or to what extent) the vaccines prevent infection and transmission. We know they are quite effective in stopping serious disease.

Sridhar seems to be unwilling to accept even a low level of death from this going forward, even though we accept it from various other things.

[101]

Just now, bendan said:

It's not known yet if (or to what extent) the vaccines prevent infection and transmission. We know they are quite effective in stopping serious disease.

Sridhar seems to be unwilling to accept even a low level of death from this going forward, even though we accept it from various other things.

I don't get why we wouldn't accept some level of death is regrettable but acceptable like we do for a whole range of things. I would say we need to get below normal hospitalisation and death rate of a flu season. This will obviously happen in the summer. But if we don't where do we stop? 

There were 428 Aids related deaths in 2017 and yet what in real terms do we do about it, very little. Encourage condoms and people to take PrEP, which isn't available widely in N.I or Eng. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

22 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

I do think, like most things involving football in Scotland, it’s down to the old firm again. Worked in London and there was absolutely no problem with people supporting different clubs and things like having a football mug. Up here they expect the knuckledragging old firm fans to lose the plot at the sight of blue/green so have to deal with it. Unfortunately whilst it’s a minority, there are still plenty of them about who genuinely get angry at things like that.

Aye but it's entertaining as it is frustrating tbh. My ex's old man was a staunch *** (apart from actually going to games) who wouldn't shop at Asda, or ever get into a green car. I'm not quite what he thought would happen to him in either of those situations. 

[bendan]

9 minutes ago, 101 said:

I don't get why we wouldn't accept some level of death is regrettable but acceptable like we do for a whole range of things. I would say we need to get below normal hospitalisation and death rate of a flu season. This will obviously happen in the summer. But if we don't where do we stop? 

There were 428 Aids related deaths in 2017 and yet what in real terms do we do about it, very little. Encourage condoms and people to take PrEP, which isn't available widely in N.I or Eng. 

I don't know whether it's social media, a general dumbing down of politics/policy, the rise of populism or what, but we are less able as a society to take difficult decisions nowadays. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by bendan

[Jambomo]

I’m probably being really stupid now but I thought the point of a vaccine was to prepare the body for catching a virus, so that it was ready to fight it off and the person wouldn’t get as sick as they might if they are heavily infected from the off. Meaning that although people might get sick, we’d have less hospitalisations/deaths as a result.

I didn’t think that it would stop transmission or was expected to, but I see a number of people talking about that, is it the case that it could? How does that happen? Sorry I’m not massively up on the workings of vaccines.

[Billy Jean King]

Have I lost the plot?
Surely to f**k if you prevent infection, less people become infected and therefore transmission slows and eventually dies.
Or can you become a carrier even once you have been vaccinated? In which case that's only a problem until you have vaccinated those most at risk because the NHS should be able to cope with the number of hospitalisations that result from the Under50's that don't have other medical issues

Bauld said they don't know if the vaccines prevent infection / transmission, it hadn't been tested. I'm with you I was quoting Linda Bauld but you have quoted my post as if that was my opinion.

[Billy Jean King]

I’m probably being really stupid now but I thought the point of a vaccine was to prepare the body for catching a virus, so that it was ready to fight it off and the person wouldn’t get as sick as they might if they are heavily infected from the off. Meaning that although people might get sick, we’d have less hospitalisations/deaths as a result.
I didn’t think that it would stop transmission or was expected to, but I see a number of people talking about that, is it the case that it could? How does that happen? Sorry I’m not massively up on the workings of vaccines.

The take from the medical boffins now seems to be we are not out the woods without the ability to stop transmission and infection despite the vaccine massively reducing serious symptoms. I'm not grasping this either as surely without serious symptoms it's not the issue it is now and just becomes a heavy cold / flu type infection.

My hope is this is a "tactic" for the rollout period in an attempt to prevent those vaccinated going back to normal behaviour before all the vulnerable have been dosed.

[Jambomo]

4 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

The take from the medical boffins now seems to be we are not out the woods without the ability to stop transmission and infection despite the vaccine massively reducing serious symptoms. I'm not grasping this either as surely without serious symptoms it's not the issue it is now and just becomes a heavy cold / flu type infection.

My hope is this is a "tactic" for the rollout period in an attempt to prevent those vaccinated going back to normal behaviour before all the vulnerable have been dosed.
 

I can understand them having a certain time of needing to know it works. In terms of lessening symptoms, especially with the possibility of long Covid in a lot of people being a potential issue. 

Like you though, I don’t see why we would continue with a strict or semi-strict lockdown if it works and symptoms are not severe. 

I’m far from thinking that society and the economy are more important than peoples lives but they aren’t unimportant, things do need to try and be up and running again as soon as they can be.

[btb]

Just now, 101 said:

I don't get why we wouldn't accept some level of death is regrettable but acceptable like we do for a whole range of things. I would say we need to get below normal hospitalisation and death rate of a flu season. This will obviously happen in the summer. But if we don't where do we stop? 

There were 428 Aids related deaths in 2017 and yet what in real terms do we do about it, very little. Encourage condoms and people to take PrEP, which isn't available widely in N.I or Eng. 

Hopefully with the combination of lockdown (lite), vaccination and the better weather due in spring we will be able to work out some sort of exit strategy by the summer 

[s_dog]

17 hours ago, WATTOO said:

Personally, I just wish our politicians would put their differences to the side and work together for a common goal, that being the good of the entire population. It doesn't matter whether it's at UK level or Scottish level or even which party is involved, it's basically all the same sniping to try and score cheap political points and personally I'm sick of it.

Khan as an example is shouting about the situation in London, yet he's the very one who was putting pressure on the Gov to open everything up !!

Yes, it's hard to please everyone but in times of national emergencies I think they all need to rise above political showcasing and work together, as the constant hypocritical sniping is helping nobody at all.

Exactly this, although it feels like its a total pie-in-the-sky wish to have. The whole problem is that even when there are intensive care units that are almost on their knees in some parts of the country, when there are some hospitals (I think Belfast & Wales as well as in South East of England) that have cancelled necessary cancer operations, we are still getting people complaining about lockdowns, and the economy, etc.

 

15 hours ago, No_Problemo said:

https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/coronavirus/2021/01/devi-sridhar-uk-needs-zero-covid-strategy-prevent-endless-lockdowns
 

Genuinely struggling to get my head round this from Sridhar. 

Reading between the lines, lockdown until summer and then gradually ease but allowing no foreign travel whatsoever. 
 

1) What is her end game, do we just go on like that for eternity. 
2) She also mentions not having another winter like this one. Why would we if the vulnerable population are vaccinated. (Yes, we might need yearly vaccines in terms of new strains
3) Surely in her vision there will be endless lockdowns as every time there are flare ups there will be local lockdowns. 

 

59 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

Bauld on BBC this morning heading in the same direction now. Vaccination can only see measures relaxed if and when we discover that the vaccine prevents infection and thus spread. If it doesn't she says SD, reduced contacts, no foreign unnecessary travel and face coverings need to remain until we develop something that prevents transmission.

The interviewer should have said there and then what's the point then but didn't. It seems the direction of travel is heading in the exact opposite direction from the initial line of get the vulnerable vaccinated and then measures can be reduced. Even the new Bozo catch phrase is ominous to the vaccinated "your mild cough could be the next person's death" or words to that effect.

And I don't understand how you can't see the logic in what these two are saying? They are looking at the likes of Australia and that's the end game, certainly in comparison to the crazy year we've had in the UK. It would mean holidays anywhere other than Scotland are possibly on hold until enough people are vaccinated everywhere, or else your holidays have to be followed by quarantine, but everything else is more normal.

If you can get the numbers low enough in the first place, local lockdowns straight away with very strong track & trace, and people paid to stay at home to isolate, that'll keep the numbers low enough so that we don't need the same restrictions in our everyday life. And as long as we don't import cases from abroad by restricting foreign travel, or perhaps letting people go abroad for one week and use the second week of holiday to quarantine when they return, then that'll keep the cases to a minimum.

In July in Scotland, if people hadn't went away on holiday to England & Spain where the cases were much higher, our numbers were so low that tightly controlling travel in and out of Scotland could have resulted in things staying the way they were in the summer. Instead, a huge proportion of our cases were linked back to these areas, the numbers grew and we ended up with the tiered lockdowns. The virus has had the chance to mutate to a more transmissible strain as it was always fairly high in parts of England and now we've ended up back in complete lockdown because of it. 

Hoping the vaccine will stop enough people getting seriously ill & dying, but without knowing it prevents transmission will always keep the virus circulating, and there is the danger we'll likely end up with this continual cycle of restrictions and lockdowns.  If we also try to drive the numbers so low at the same time, maybe there is the chance to have much less restrictions and only ever small local lockdowns for a couple of weeks. 

 

[Thereisalight..]

2 hours ago, Steven W said:

Spot on.

How can we ever get back to normal with what she proposes. I assume even Devi herself has a desire to get back to normal at some point in time.

Somewhere along the line we'll need to test the water, and just see what happens. If the virus, even with a large proportion of the population vaccinated were to flare up again, we'd just need to react accordingly. She seemingly proposes never dipping as much as toe in to the water.

Devi probably doesn’t want normality as that would mean there would be no need for her and the sanctimonious p***k Leitch to be on the TV/Radio every other day. 

[TheScarf]

Zero Covid ffs. How on earth is that possible? 

[Guest]

A curfew is an utter nonsense tbh. 
 
Achieves nothing and ultimately just jams people into shops etc in a shorter time period. 
 
You then have your key workers (dependent on shifts) potentially coming home from work and not being able to leave the house. 

I much prefer to do my shopping later at night as there is no dithering oldies or families of 10 in the shop.

Also walk the dog later at night if shes misbehaving which wont be allowed now.

[Thereisalight..]

I don’t know if anybody read the story about the two young women from Leicestershire who were finned by a mob heavy police force. They drove 5 miles in their own cars to go a socially distanced walk in a quite area. They stayed 2 metres apart and were confronted by a police van and 2 cars. The women had coffee cups they’d brought from home, they were told this was classed as a “picnic” (despite the fact they weren’t sitting down drinking them) and fined £200 each. If you think this is acceptable then you’re part of the problem. 

[TheScarf]

Just now, Empty It said:

I much prefer to do my shopping later at night as there is no dithering oldies or families of 10 in the shop.

Also walk the dog later at night if shes misbehaving which wont be allowed now.
 

Yep, shopping around 10 is something I've seen me to before for the above, and the nightshift are on so the shelves are fuller. 

[Steven W]

5 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Devi probably doesn’t want normality as that would mean there would be no need for her and the sanctimonious p***k Leitch to be on the TV/Radio every other day. 

It's a nice thought, but in reality I'd expect that in truth Sridhar would like to go out for a meal, a concert etc the same as the rest of us.

What I don't understand is she seems to advocate being in this state of paralysis for an undetermined amount of time. We've been at this nigh on a year now, and the long term gameplan is now needing widely discussed.

[Thereisalight..]

3 minutes ago, Steven W said:

It's a nice thought, but in reality I'd expect that in truth Sridhar would like to go out for a meal, a concert etc the same as the rest of us.

What I don't understand is she seems to advocate being in this state of paralysis for an undetermined amount of time. We've been at this nigh on a year now, and the long term gameplan is now needing widely discussed.

People need to start questioning the long term gameplan. That will never happen when the MSM is filled with sycophants blinding agreeing with every decision being made 

[Detournement]

7 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Zero Covid ffs. How on earth is that possible? 

It's not. 

We are going to be under restrictions for a long, long time. 

[Billy Jean King]

And I don't understand how you can't see the logic in what these two are saying? They are looking at the likes of Australia and that's the end game, certainly in comparison to the crazy year we've had in the UK. It would mean holidays anywhere other than Scotland are possibly on hold until enough people are vaccinated everywhere, or else your holidays have to be followed by quarantine, but everything else is more normal.
If you can get the numbers low enough in the first place, local lockdowns straight away with very strong track & trace, and people paid to stay at home to isolate, that'll keep the numbers low enough so that we don't need the same restrictions in our everyday life. And as long as we don't import cases from abroad by restricting foreign travel, or perhaps letting people go abroad for one week and use the second week of holiday to quarantine when they return, then that'll keep the cases to a minimum.
In July in Scotland, if people hadn't went away on holiday to England & Spain where the cases were much higher, our numbers were so low that tightly controlling travel in and out of Scotland could have resulted in things staying the way they were in the summer. Instead, a huge proportion of our cases were linked back to these areas, the numbers grew and we ended up with the tiered lockdowns. The virus has had the chance to mutate to a more transmissible strain as it was always fairly high in parts of England and now we've ended up back in complete lockdown because of it. 
Hoping the vaccine will stop enough people getting seriously ill & dying, but without knowing it prevents transmission will always keep the virus circulating, and there is the danger we'll likely end up with this continual cycle of restrictions and lockdowns.  If we also try to drive the numbers so low at the same time, maybe there is the chance to have much less restrictions and only ever small local lockdowns for a couple of weeks. 
 

Your focusing too much on holidays imo. Talk of SD, masks and restrictions in contact after the vulnerable are vaccinated it simply shite, not needed assuming that vaccines work as stated .