Bairnardo Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 which is probably why we have half the number of deaths.Scotland has half the number of deaths as England. From the guy who lectured Craigkillie on his grasp of statistics [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocketman Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, ICTChris said: Read something interesting this morning, pertinent to the chat about herd immunity. The ‘Herd immunity Policy’ has taken this mythic status, the idea that evil Tories sat down and planned to kill thousands of people with Dominic Cummings somehow in charge. However, at the time a lot of more acceptable people (including the cuddly Scottish Government, who love all its citizens and don’t want any of us to die of anything, ever) promoted the term Flatten the curve. Flattening the curve is a herd immunity strategy with mitigation to prevent health services becoming overrun. The curve is flattened on the way to herd immunity. That is what this graph, seen very frequently last year, shows I recall the main clinical advisor to the Scottish Government drawing this graph on a flip chart on the news discussing why the SG were taking the approach they were - allowing concerts, football matches, keeping schools open etc. Flattening the curve in the fight against C-19 is associated with a number of measures that are taken to ensure, as you say, the healthcare system does not become over-run. Ensuring the number of people infected on a daily basis that required hospital care and use of ICU was the goal - how that was achieved varied from country to country and Government to Government. Herd immunity was one such measures that was discussed early on by a number of experts and Governments including Westminster but few (if any - Sweden?) went ahead with it. However the term flattening the curve continued to be used at briefings and as a narrative but had no connection to the action of herd immunity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Scotland has half the number of deaths as England. From the guy who lectured Craigkillie on his grasp of statistics Per capita you fucking moron. I didn't think anybody would be stupid enough to require that explained to them, but you have taken stupidity to new levels. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Per capita you fucking moron. I didn't think anybody would be stupid enough to require that explained to them, but you have taken stupidity to new levels.Away back and tell lies on the Golf thread. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said: Flattening the curve in the fight against C-19 is associated with a number of measures that are taken to ensure, as you say, the healthcare system does not become over-run. Ensuring the number of people infected on a daily basis that required hospital care and use of ICU was the goal - how that was achieved varied from country to country and Government to Government. Herd immunity was one such measures that was discussed early on by a number of experts and Governments including Westminster but few (if any - Sweden?) went ahead with it. However the term flattening the curve continued to be used at briefings and as a narrative but had no connection to the action of herd immunity. No it did, that's a mistake and they will try to perpetuate it. Flattening the curve was a technique to try to achieve herd immunity but in a managed way. Realistically nobody would just let it go and do nothing as it would cause the health service to be overwhlemed, the economy collapse and societal breakdown. Flattening the curve is a choice to allow it to pass through your population but in a managed way. The other approach, taken by countries like NZ, is suppression. To suppress the virus and eventually eliminate it from society then gain immunity through vaccination. That's why the disparity in deaths is so big. I think people here, because our media won't tell them, don't realise how bad a job our government have done. If we have the same rate of deaths as NZ we'd have about 350. Instead we have over a hundred thousand and are tripling NZ's per capita figure almost every day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 20 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said: 28 minutes ago, madwullie said: ITK Not in that loop personally more friend of a friend Dont destroy the magic mate 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1885 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Per capita you fucking moron. I didn't think anybody would be stupid enough to require that explained to them, but you have taken stupidity to new levels.Relax bud. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocketman Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: No it did, that's a mistake and they will try to perpetuate it. Flattening the curve was a technique to try to achieve herd immunity but in a managed way. Realistically nobody would just let it go and do nothing as it would cause the health service to be overwhlemed, the economy collapse and societal breakdown. Flattening the curve is a choice to allow it to pass through your population but in a managed way. The other approach, taken by countries like NZ, is suppression. To suppress the virus and eventually eliminate it from society then gain immunity through vaccination. That's why the disparity in deaths is so big. I think people here, because our media won't tell them, don't realise how bad a job our government have done. If we have the same rate of deaths as NZ we'd have about 350. Instead we have over a hundred thousand and are tripling NZ's per capita figure almost every day. yes but what I said (probably not very well) is that the term came to be used to cover a number of measures that were being deployed rather than the true meaning. "flattening the curve" was still being used in Westminster press briefings in May when herd immunity was not the measure that was being employed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, KingRocketman II said: yes but what I said (probably not very well) is that the term came to be used to cover a number of measures that were being deployed rather than the true meaning. "flattening the curve" was still being used in Westminster press briefings in May when herd immunity was not the measure that was being employed. I don't think you're understanding, flattening the curve and herd immunity are the same thing. Flattening the curve is a technique to achieve herd immunity in a managed way. What you want to do is eliminate altogether so there is no curve to flatten, but we didn't take the route of suppression. Its worth repeating again for posterity, everybody should be aware of this. If you extrapolate NZ's death figure to a population the size of the UK we would have about 350 deaths, total, throughout the entire pandemic, If our govt had done as good a job as NZ's. We are more than tripling that figure every single day. Its breathtaking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWL Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 I joined P&B in August 2003. In that time there have been plenty of folk I've utterly disagreed with, especially on this thread when tensions can run high, but I've never had the need to mute or block anyone. Until this morning. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, PWL said: I joined P&B in August 2003. In that time there have been plenty of folk I've utterly disagreed with, especially on this thread when tensions can run high, but I've never had the need to mute or block anyone. Until this morning. You can’t leave it there.... ETA wondering if he can see this! Edited January 16, 2021 by Granny Danger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Worth remembering our government reacted to this by waiting ten months to put any restrictions onto international travel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, PWL said: I joined P&B in August 2003. In that time there have been plenty of folk I've utterly disagreed with, especially on this thread when tensions can run high, but I've never had the need to mute or block anyone. Until this morning. Who? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, MixuFruit said: he can't read your posts anymore That's a pity, I feel I was just about to turn a corner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Per capita you fucking moron. I didn't think anybody would be stupid enough to require that explained to them, but you have taken stupidity to new levels.Well we have significantly more than half of Englands death per million people, so perhaps you are unqualified to speak on this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Wow. Are you [mention=67103]Peppino Impastato[/mention]? You only just realised? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Scotland has half the number of deaths as England. From the guy who lectured Craigkillie on his grasp of statistics [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]I assume he's confused the current death rates with the overall death rates. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 I assume he's confused the current death rates with the overall death rates.To be fair to him, I was reading it as “since the summer”, which is closer to the truth. I can’t believe that I’m trying to be fair to him though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, TheJTS98 said: Malaysian equivalent of this is the private hospitals' obsession with MRI scans. Obviously, the most expensive thing they can offer on a daily basis. Go in with a sore head. They'll try to bully you into an immediate MRI. Sore Knee? MRI. A cough? MRI. Obviously broken toe (as I had last year)? MRI. I actually couldn't avoid a laugh last time I was in (for the broken toe). I'd shown him my foot, he'd done the x-ray, he'd shown me the break, and he'd told me basically just to rest as there's nothing to be done. Then, just as I'm standing up to leave, "If you'd like more peace of mind, we can offer you an MRI...". I told him I wondered what had taken so long. The joys of private health. I dread to think what it would have cost me these last few years since I was diagnosed with COPD (never mind the prostate cancer). Umpteen chest x-rays. A couple/three consultations with a chest specialist. A consultation with a prostate specialist. Prostate biopsy. MRI scan. Bowel scan. (Another scan which I can't remember what it was for - bone scan perhaps.) Consultation with an oncologist. 4 implants to date.* Plus umpteen courses of antibiotics for my chest and repeat inhalers every month. Thank God for the Beveridge report and those who implemented it. *ETA: These are £400.00 a pop. apparently. Edited January 16, 2021 by Jacksgranda Update and Sllepnig 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Steven W said: Saw this last night and meant to post, but was busy with other stuff (Morton v Dunfermline!). Virologist says it's a one-off, but find myself thinking "Really?" Would answer a lot of it's being harboured on foodstuff Millions more would have caught it if that were the case, surely? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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