Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Steven W]

4 minutes ago, Gaz said:

You've also got the issue that a lot of our school bus drivers, as well as those who provide private transport for the likes of disabled kids, are elderly. That raises another massive issue of how many swathes of kids are actually able to get to school in the first place.

Re the busses - that issue is exclusive to Secondary schools though isn't it?

It wouldn't a valid point for primary schools (but certainly is for secondary schools) as there's far more of them and (in my town anyway) no need for busses for them.

[Gaz]

3 minutes ago, Steven W said:

Re the busses - that issue is exclusive to Secondary schools though isn't it?

It wouldn't a valid point for primary schools (but certainly is for secondary schools) as there's far more of them and (in my town anyway) no need for busses for them.

Mostly, yes. Although the private transport thing applies to primary pupils too. My own two school-age daughters get private transport to school.

[Gaz]

Just now, oaksoft said:

The general public will almost certainly not see it that way but I understand where you are coming from.

As you say, England is going to be interesting to watch.

On a positive note, I saw a teaching trust (?) on the BBC talking about wanting to get schools back open again. This is the sort of thing I expect to happen.

Even vast swathes of the Daily Mail (shudder) comments are against this crusade. I think you're quite possibly misreading the mood of the public.

As I've said before on here, not one teacher I know (for the benefit of VT) doesn't want the schools to be back open. We want them to be safe before that happens.

[Gaz]

Also, and I know this won't be exclusive to my own school, how many cleaners / dinner ladies / helpers are elderly, retired women doing it for a bit pin money.

[bendan]

6 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

I know. I rely on grandparents myself a lot of the time, although generally Mrs B can adjust her shifts to fit mine. Them being shielded would come with it's own problems for us, but since we are both key workers I guess we would be lucky enough to get at least some help.

My point really is just that we are taking a blanket approach to something that has a pretty specific range of danger, and to my untrained eye, the measures that we have taken are not being adequately reviewed from the perspective of the damage they are causing versus the question of could we achieve the same protection for those most vulnerable but make allowances for those who are able to start getting back to normality and try to mitigate the carnage that will follow this.

Basically, I am starting to lose faith in what we are doing. I cant be alone in that among people who have done their best to follow the rules and make sure I am not adding to the problem.

This is so true. I think almost everyone accepted the need for a blanket lockdown while we figure things out, but a blanket lockdown when we know some activities are relatively safe, and some groups with very low risk, is very primitive and also ridiculously expensive. 

[Detournement]

20 minutes ago, NorthernLights said:

Manchester Uni claim 25% of people in the UK have been infected.

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/over-25-of-the-uk-likely-to-have-had-covid-19-already/

We'll have to wait and see if this claim pans out.

This is believable. 

I would guess that our lockdown has involved many multiples more of social contact time than the stricter versions on the continent. 

[Karpaty Lviv]

I work in primary school after care and the summer holidays are our busiest time of the year. Given that our work requires more one to one contact with the children, I just can’t see how it will work. We have had no information at all. 

I saw a clip from the BBC yesterday on how Denmark is handling having primary schools open again. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/52649919

[Detournement]

4 minutes ago, bendan said:

This is so true. I think almost everyone accepted the need for a blanket lockdown while we figure things out, but a blanket lockdown when we know some activities are relatively safe, and some groups with very low risk, is very primitive and also ridiculously expensive. 

 I'm hoping that the government know this but think the best way to deal with easing it is making short notice announcements.

In Scotland people are already jumping the gun ahead of Sturgeon's schedule. If Boris had said back to work in 10 days loads of people would still have went back sooner. 

[Turkmenbashi]

24 minutes ago, NorthernLights said:

Manchester Uni claim 25% of people in the UK have been infected.

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/over-25-of-the-uk-likely-to-have-had-covid-19-already/

We'll have to wait and see if this claim pans out.

Without knowing the accuracy, antibody testing on the continent, Belgium/Spain/France suggests in most countries around 5% immunity, considering the spread is similar in the U.K. as in these countries. I am cynical.

Although I don't know how accurate antibody testing still is.

[D.A.F.C]

While I agree with that, I assume it comes with the caveat that this new normal can only be achieved when we actually have the capacity to properly test trace and isolate. As every part of the UK is clearly months away from being ready for that due to governmental failures to prepare for it, the reopening of schools and other workplaces where maintaining distancing is an impossibility is therefore also months away.

There needs to be black and white rules for employers. Social distancing where practical otherwise masks and other suitable ppe plus screens longer term.
If that's not there then you walk out. No repercussions.
Telling employers 'should' means dont.

[bendan]

13 minutes ago, Turkmenbashi said:

Without knowing the accuracy, antibody testing on the continent, Belgium/Spain/France suggests in most countries around 5% immunity, considering the spread is similar in the U.K. as in these countries. I am cynical.

Although I don't know how accurate antibody testing still is.

It seems to be getting a lot of scepticism from other researchers. The link I gave earlier from Cambridge has estimates based on full access to PHE data.

https://www.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk/tackling-covid-19/nowcasting-and-forecasting-of-covid-19/

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by bendan

[ayrmad]

5 minutes ago, Turkmenbashi said:

Without knowing the accuracy, antibody testing on the continent, Belgium/Spain/France suggests in most countries around 5% immunity, considering the spread is similar in the U.K. as in these countries. I am cynical.

Although I don't know how accurate antibody testing still is.

I'm hoping the continent is wrong as it puts deaths up nearer 0.75%  of infections, was hoping it was 1/2 to 1/3 of that. 

[vikingTON]

48 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I didn't say it made a compelling case, I said it was one reason.

It's not a reason that can be discounted, though. Childcare is prohibitively expensive for a lot of families, and totally unavailable for more. That's why Grandparents provide so much. If that facility is taken away it's millions of people who can't go to work.

There are loads of families at my school who wouldn't be able to work at all if it wasn't for Grandparents watching the kids before / after school. On paper it might only look like they're providing ten hours of childcare a week, but those ten hours are at absolutely crucial times of the day.

 

1 hour ago, trainspotter said:

My partner is a teacher and has COPD. I'm very happy that her union is acting in her and her colleagues best interests rather than worrying about what a bunch of random gobshites on Facebook think.

Both of you seem to think that people are  going to be obliged to work under any circumstances. It's entirely possible and right for people with prior health conditions and/or care burdens (children as well as disabled/older relatives) to be maintained on furlough/longer term sabbatical scheme while the rest of the staff return to the workplace: in schools as much as any other area. It just shouldn't happen under this untenable social distancing nonsense.

Edited May 15, 2020 by vikingTON

[bendan]

3 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

I'm hoping the continent is wrong as it puts deaths up nearer 0.75%  of infections, was hoping it was 1/2 to 1/3 of that. 

The Cambridge/PHE data has it at 0.63%. Massive differences by age group though. I think it's 16% for over 75s.

[Gaz]

3 minutes ago, virginton said:

Both of you seem to think that people are  going to be obliged to work under any circumstances. It's entirely possible and right for people with prior health conditions and/or care burdens (children as well as disabled/older relatives) to be maintained on furlough/longer term sabbatical scheme while the rest of the staff return to the workplace. It just shouldn't happen under this untenable social distancing nonsense.

Do you have confidence, under the economic model that the UK operates under, that employers will be so understanding of such circumstances?

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, Gaz said:

Do you have confidence, under the economic model that the UK operates under, that employers will be so understanding of such circumstances?

They should be obliged to do under law, in the same way that HSE can hold them responsible for unsafe working practices. Of all the adjustments that business and society have been making recently it's hardly a major one at all; even your classic, moustache-twirling villain employers like Amazon have already allowed the same categories to go on the long term sick during lockdown. It does no sensible organisation any good to try and f**k over its permanent workforce right now. 

[bendan]

23 minutes ago, Detournement said:

 I'm hoping that the government know this but think the best way to deal with easing it is making short notice announcements.

In Scotland people are already jumping the gun ahead of Sturgeon's schedule. If Boris had said back to work in 10 days loads of people would still have went back sooner. 

Countries like Denmark quickly restarted some activities, where practicable, even though their case numbers were only just starting to fall. We are being a lot more cautious, and it's got to the point where the judgement is very questionable.

[Ludo*1]

BBC calling Ian Blackford, Angus Robertson in their live updates.

[coprolite]

Big news for key workers down here. 

 

 

 

 

Timpsons has re-opened

 

 

My coat's in the hall

[Steven W]

35 minutes ago, Karpaty Lviv said:

I work in primary school after care and the summer holidays are our busiest time of the year. Given that our work requires more one to one contact with the children, I just can’t see how it will work. We have had no information at all. 

I saw a clip from the BBC yesterday on how Denmark is handling having primary schools open again. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/52649919

Hourly hand washing. A great, simple, cheap and very effective idea.

The virus is killed by soap. Seems a bit to me that we've forgotten this in favour of being 2M. apart from one another.