Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[vikingTON]

2 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

We are not discussing presently though, we're talking about August and they were due to be in August. The schools were opening, those people would have been working.

Nothing announced today has changed anything for the staff. It has changed the ability of pupils to attend in bigger numbers and with less disruption (potentially, I know it's not a guarantee, but it is a lot more positive than the same man was less than 7 days ago).

However, it's not remotely the same as allowing a much older football crowd to gather in the same numbers. That will be much further away.

Well it changes your claim that the demographic of a school is all under 18 to utter bollocks. Are we really going to persist with this convenient fiction that kids are uniquely protected from passing this virus to others, as opposed to every other air-based infection that goes around schools like wildfire?

If 1000 weans + all support staff can use the same indoor space for fully 35 hours every week then 1000 people can use Gayfield or indeed Cappielow once a fortnight. The risk profile is significantly higher for the first activity.

[Dundee Hibernian]

5 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Who are all there anyway.

 

2 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

We are not discussing presently though, we're talking about August and they were due to be in August.

Sorry, your tenses confused me. 

2 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

However, it's not remotely the same as allowing a much older football crowd to gather in the same numbers.

Yes you are correct. A lower percentage of the much older football crowd is likely to misbehave. I agree games are unlikely to have attendances in August, while the school pupils return.

 

I don't feel Mr Swinney, and the politicians generally, have done enough to explain their decision making, which would have helped carry more people with the guidance. As people have written above, there seems no logic in not opening gyms as an example, while allowing access to other activities.

[Musketeer Gripweed]

12 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

We are not discussing presently though, we're talking about August and they were due to be in August. The schools were opening, those people would have been working.

Nothing announced today has changed anything for the staff. It has changed the ability of pupils to attend in bigger numbers and with less disruption (potentially, I know it's not a guarantee, but it is a lot more positive than the same man was less than 7 days ago).

However, it's not remotely the same as allowing a much older football crowd to gather in the same numbers. That will be much further away.

I take it they will only be showing Disney movies at the cinema next month then?

[Skyline Drifter]

2 minutes ago, virginton said:

Well it changes your claim that the demographic of a school is all under 18 to utter bollocks. Are we really going to persist with this convenient fiction that kids are uniquely protected from passing this virus to others, as opposed to every other air-based infection that goes around schools like wildfire?

If 1000 weans + all support staff can use the same indoor space for fully 35 hours every week then 1000 people can use Gayfield or indeed Cappielow once a fortnight. The risk profile is significantly higher for the first activity.

Well no it doesn't. Despite the parody nature of your persona, I KNOW you aren't so stupid that you can't work out the average age of people in attendance at schools, even including staff is about 30 or more years lower than the average age of a football crowd.

As far as I have read, early research also suggested under 18's were far less likely to carry and transmit the virus than adults as well as less likely to get it. 1000 "weans" is not a remotely similar example as 1000 at Cappielow.

1 minute ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

 

Sorry, your tenses confused me. 

Yes you are correct. A lower percentage of the much older football crowd is likely to misbehave. I agree games are unlikely to have attendances in August, while the school pupils return.

 

I don't feel Mr Swinney, and the politicians generally, have done enough to explain their decision making, which would have helped carry more people with the guidance. As people have written above, there seems no logic in not opening gyms as an example, while allowing access to other activities.

I'm not actually convinced a lower percentage of the football crowd will misbehave. Football supporters notoriously won't do as they are asked which is why so many of them manage to fall out with stewards every week. However, that's a different issue. My issue was that a large attendance of u18's at anything clearly doesn't carry the same risk as an equivalent attendance of adults and older people. We might well have crowds at football in October (I don't think there's any chance for August) but it won't have any equivalence to schools being open.

[Skyline Drifter]

3 minutes ago, Musketeer Gripweed said:

I take it they will only be showing Disney movies at the cinema next month then?

Not sure what your point is here? Nor what it's relevance to the issue of schools being open "as normal" as to football crowds being allowed? Are you suggesting cinemas will be opening as normal with no social distancing?

Edited June 23, 2020 by Skyline Drifter

[Ron Aldo]

^^^ needs more 'roids

As I've already pointed out, people have been able to drink at home this entire time in the same way that people have been able to do (limited) exercise outside.

Would you not agree that it does seem a bit backwards that a country that has a problem with obesity and binge drinking (and acknowledges this) is looking to open pubs before gyms?

My priority isn't pubs. Your priority isn't gyms. I agree with a lot of the points you've made in this thread but we clearly have different views on this and that's fine.

[Todd_is_God]

5 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Not sure what your point is here? Nor what it's relevance to the issue of schools being open "as normal" as to football crowds being allowed? Are you suggesting cinemas will be opening as normal with no social distancing?

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but surely if a cinema can open with 1m social distancing, there isn't really much reason a football stadium, which is outdoors, couldn't do the same?

[vikingTON]

12 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Well no it doesn't. Despite the parody nature of your persona, I KNOW you aren't so stupid that you can't work out the average age of people in attendance at schools, even including staff is about 30 or more years lower than the average age of a football crowd.

Well no, because you didn't actually base your claim on an 'average age' here at all:

44 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Well, apart from the fact that the demographic of the school attendance is that they are all under 18 and the demographic of football crowd attendances isn't.

The 65 year old school janny is not under 18. None of the teachers are under 18. Nor the support staff.

Quote

As far as I have read, early research also suggested under 18's were far less likely to carry and transmit the virus than adults as well as less likely to get it.

'Early research' that conveniently supports the get schools back to normal aim of the government and flies in the face of both the epidemiology of every other airborne disease and the massively reduced infection rates of countries that wrapped up schools at the start of their national outbreak? Well that's authoritative stuff right there!

Quote

1000 "weans" is not a remotely similar example as 1000 at Cappielow.

Indeed it isn't, as 1000 people at Cappielow would be i) in an outdoor environment ii) effortlessly distanced at all times - being under 10% of the venue capacity - and iii) being in the same space for 90 minutes per fortnight compared to 35 hours per week. The school therefore poses an massively higher risk of infection to any single one of its attendees and it's not even close.

Edited June 23, 2020 by vikingTON

[Gaz]

28 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

We are not discussing presently though, we're talking about August and they were due to be in August. The schools were opening, those people would have been working.

Nothing announced today has changed anything for the staff. It has changed the ability of pupils to attend in bigger numbers and with less disruption (potentially, I know it's not a guarantee, but it is a lot more positive than the same man was less than 7 days ago).

However, it's not remotely the same as allowing a much older football crowd to gather in the same numbers. That will be much further away.

You're wrong here, by the way. This changes how much teachers will be in school in August too.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but surely if a cinema can open with 1m social distancing, there isn't really much reason a football stadium, which is outdoors, couldn't do the same?

I agree. I never said football stadiums couldn't open. I addressed Moonster's comment that schools going back meant there was no reason football crowds couldn't. I don't think schools going back remotely links to football crowds. Cinemas I agree is a better example. Although people are far less likely to shout and scream and project breath droplets etc at a cinema I guess.

[Guest SJP79]

There seems to be a second wave coming in South Korea and Israel, plus out breaks in Austrailia, Portugal and Spain. 

I think a second wave will happen here, especially with tourism starting again, fans in stadiums looks doubtful unless there in a huge reduction in numbers. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by SJP79

[vikingTON]

4 minutes ago, SJP79 said:

There seems to be a second wave coming in South Korea and Israel, plus out breaks in Austrailia, Portugal and Spain. 

I think a second wave will happen here especially with tourism starting again, fans in stadiums looks doubtful unless there  in a huge reduction in numbers. 

Well the UK media certainly wants to believe that South Korea is in the process of a second wave (or a third wave after it breathlessly forecasted a previous one with the nightclub outbreak in Seoul) but it doesn't tally with the facts right now:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/

Edited June 23, 2020 by vikingTON

[Musketeer Gripweed]

19 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Not sure what your point is here? Nor what it's relevance to the issue of schools being open "as normal" as to football crowds being allowed? Are you suggesting cinemas will be opening as normal with no social distancing?

You don't understand that the age demographic a a Disney movie would be a lot younger than at an 18 certificate horror movie? It's ok for schools but not outdoor sports stadiums though? 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Musketeer Gripweed

[Skyline Drifter]

 

2 minutes ago, Gaz said:

You're wrong here, by the way. This changes how much teachers will be in school in August too.

Does it? As a matter of interest how? Is it because they may now work Fridays and weren't going to before?

As I understand my own kids school, as per the information issued only this morning, the class sizes were to be halved and half the kids were to be in Mondays and Tuesdays and the other half Wednesdays and Thursdays with home learning the other days. The teachers would be in all four days. However Fridays were still to be finalised and it was looking unlikely to be in school learning.

[stumigoo]

Nothing announced today has changed anything for the staff.

It absolutely has.

[Gaz]

3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

Does it? As a matter of interest how? Is it because they may now work Fridays and weren't going to before?

As I understand my own kids school, as per the information issued only this morning, the class sizes were to be halved and half the kids were to be in Mondays and Tuesdays and the other half Wednesdays and Thursdays with home learning the other days. The teachers would be in all four days. However Fridays were still to be finalised and it was looking unlikely to be in school learning.

Our local authority's plans for the blended model had teachers being in school for most of the week but also working from home part of the week. A large part of this was down to logistics - under the blended model, we were to have a maximum of ten pupils in a class spread out over three times as many rooms as they would have normally required.

This meant that when teachers had non-contact time, being able to sit in our rooms to plan / mark wasn't going to be feasible as our room would be being used. Given that we weren't going to be allowed to congregate in staff rooms, and our terms and conditions explicitly allow us to carry out certain aspects of our job remotely, our staff were to be expected to be working from home part of the week.

This new plan changes that, we're now going to be in as normal.

EDIT: Even if this wasn't the case, surely your own acknowledgement that teachers will now be in on Friday (whereas before they weren't) defeats your own argument that nothing has changed for teachers?

Edited June 23, 2020 by Gaz

[Skyline Drifter]

1 minute ago, Musketeer Gripweed said:

You don't understand that the age demographic a a Disney movie would be a lot younger than at an 18 certificate horror movie? It's ok for schools but not football stadiums though? 

Well duh, obviously I appreciate that the attendance at a Disney movie will be younger than at a slasher one. We were not discussing cinemas though. The discussion was whether schools being back full time in August meant football crowds would be.

If your point is that football crowds should be allowed because cinema attendance is I agree with you. I wasn't saying football crowds shouldn't be allowed, just that schools going back with the vast majority of attendees being in the very lowest risk group is not terribly relevant to crowds at football. VT thinks it is, Moonster and Dundee Hibernian think it is.

[Todd_is_God]

12 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I agree. I never said football stadiums couldn't open. I addressed Moonster's comment that schools going back meant there was no reason football crowds couldn't. I don't think schools going back remotely links to football crowds. Cinemas I agree is a better example. Although people are far less likely to shout and scream and project breath droplets etc at a cinema I guess.

True. Though maybe masks could be worn to mitigate?

[Monkey Tennis]

4 hours ago, AyrshireTon said:

The courses are still changing. We got the update to N5 Maths emailed earlier in the week. 

Agree about the difficulty of Int 2 etc. N5 is a hybrid of SG (Credit), Int 2 and a couple of bits of old Higher added in. With it being the only examinable option on the table for S4 pupils, it's little wonder that every year one third of sitting candidates fail it.

Standard Grade represented an ideal course for an awful lot of kids, in a way that none of its replacements have managed.

[Skyline Drifter]

2 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Our local authority's plans for the blended model had teachers being in school for most of the week but also working from home part of the week. A large part of this was down to logistics - under the blended model, we were to have a maximum of ten pupils in a class spread out over three times as many rooms as they would have normally required.

This meant that when teachers had non-contact time, being able to sit in our rooms to plan / mark wasn't going to be feasible as our room would be being used. Given that we weren't going to be allowed to congregate in staff rooms, and our terms and conditions explicitly allow us to carry out certain aspects of our job remotely, our staff were to be expected to be working from home part of the week.

This new plan changes that, we're now going to be in as normal.

Fair enough then, thanks. I take the point. Janitors, cleaners and school meals staff presumably would have been in for their normal duties though?

Never the less, the point about the risk in a crowd of children being far lower than in the equivalent sized crowd of football fans remains.