Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Billy Jean King said:

2 hours ago, virginton said:

BTP were patrolling trains and major stations - including Kilwinning junction - to turn back larger groups at the start of the month and there's no reason why they wouldn't be doing the same now.
I'm not sure how you propose to just abandon the basic laws of supply and demand here. The demand for outdoor space yesterday was probably about the highest it could ever possibly be - far higher than the similar hot spell two years ago when people were at school/work for much of the day. At the same time, the government's own travel restrictions reduced the practical supply of public space, thereby further promoting typical hotspots like Kelvingrove Park to become the obvious choice for too many people. There's no getting round the conclusion that KP was significantly busier than its usual peak unless you think that half of Glasgow just decided to sit in their roasting houses all day which yeah quite clearly didn't happen.
The cause of crowding then is quite clear. The real question left unanswered is why the SG, the local authorities and the local police didn't do a better job of getting ahead of this issue through a combination of i) highlighting crowding risk at KP via social media and pointing people to larger and less congested spaces around the city and ii) actually patrolling the park and its entrance points to stop large groups from assembling in the first place. A child could have seen from the start of this week that there would have been an issue there yesterday, so the polis rocking up late in the day to close the entire area before the SG harrumphs about it is not a credible response at all.

The time for the govt to "manage" these type of situations is surely coming to an end and it's high time the public were getting back to making decisions for themselves. You now appear to be advocating the NS lead nanny state that you have appeared to be moaning about for months. I think lockdown is starting to condition your thinking !

Erm no - it is not 'nanny state' behaviour at all to point people to less busy public spaces through social media or to get the police to do their actual day job instead of sticking the full blues on hours later and blundering around the place telling families to get back in their house for reasons. Those are just entirely straightforward measures that would help people to comply with the regulations where possible, which is what the vast majority of the public actually want to do. The reason why so many couldn't do this yesterday is down to the unintended consequences of a pointless travel restriction, which will at least have been finally punted in the bin by the time that the weather becomes halfway decent again.

[Michael W]

Is it really a surprise people that are bored of being stuck in their houses end up going to the same places when:

1) They can't travel more than 5 miles (I believe this is guidance, but most people seem to take it pretty seriously) and:

2) Most things are still shut. 

A big problem is that there is still just about f**k all else to do - options are still severely restrained and this will inevitably result in crowds. People got over going for a 20min walk around the block more than a month ago; it's boring. 

Perception of risk is another thing. The number of new cases in Scotland is minimal so people are going to feel a lot more comfortable going out. That is certainly not a bad thing at all. 

[madwullie]

2 hours ago, virginton said:

BTP were patrolling trains and major stations - including Kilwinning junction - to turn back larger groups at the start of the month and there's no reason why they wouldn't be doing the same now.

I'm not sure how you propose to just abandon the basic laws of supply and demand here. The demand for outdoor space yesterday was probably about the highest it could ever possibly be - far higher than the similar hot spell two years ago when people were at school/work for much of the day. At the same time, the government's own travel restrictions reduced the practical supply of public space, thereby further promoting typical hotspots like Kelvingrove Park to become the obvious choice for too many people. There's no getting round the conclusion that KP was significantly busier than its usual peak unless you think that half of Glasgow just decided to sit in their roasting houses all day which yeah quite clearly didn't happen.

The cause of crowding then is quite clear. The real question left unanswered is why the SG, the local authorities and the local police didn't do a better job of getting ahead of this issue through a combination of i) highlighting crowding risk at KP via social media and pointing people to larger and less congested spaces around the city and ii) actually patrolling the park and its entrance points to stop large groups from assembling in the first place. A child could have seen from the start of this week that there would have been an issue there yesterday, so the polis rocking up late in the day to close the entire area before the SG harrumphs about it is not a credible response at all.

OK you're right 

[madwullie]

2 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

12 hours ago, virginton said:

If it was just as busy as on a summer's night previously then where did all the scheme goblins who typically rock up at their natural second home of Ayrshire go instead for the day? Pretty sure that they didn't just sit in the house because of the big bad virus. 
 

They turned up down here as well as venues like this in Glasgow. These numbers in the park are not unusual it's just that they are rarely newsworthy. That said a quick Google search will show a few recent examples of bother in Glasgow parks as well as down on the coast. It's the dispersal that is newsworthy not the fact people were in the park.

Yep

Edited June 26, 2020 by madwullie

[Paco]

No issue with people gathering outdoors in local parks in Scotland, like the government told them to do.

No issue either with people flocking to the beach in England, like the government told them to do. Maybe they were simply ‘showing guts’ and ‘wanting to see bustle’.

Policy in action. Both governments should be pleased.

[vikingTON]

58 minutes ago, madwullie said:

OK you're right 

Indeed I am.

52 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Yep

So why was an incident declared yesterday and the police brought in to close the entire area if there was only as many people there as at the start of the month - during an earlier stage of restrictions as well - when no such intervention was deemed necessary?

Edited June 26, 2020 by vikingTON

[Gordon EF]

1 hour ago, Paco said:

Maybe they were simply ‘showing guts’ and ‘wanting to see bustle’.
 

There was definitely a few guts on display.

[hk blues]

1 hour ago, Paco said:

No issue with people gathering outdoors in local parks in Scotland, like the government told them to do.

No issue either with people flocking to the beach in England, like the government told them to do. Maybe they were simply ‘showing guts’ and ‘wanting to see bustle’.

Policy in action. Both governments should be pleased.

Were they socially distancing, like the government told them to?

[Dunning1874]

I don't see how you can blame people who congregated in Kelvingrove. Where are the significant proportion of Glasgow residents who live in tenements with no garden or only one small shared garden between several flats supposed to go exactly? Going to their nearest available green space is exactly what they're being told to do.

[Mark Connolly]

No danger of anyone sitting in Kelvingrove today.

[Todd_is_God]

+17 cases (16)

+0 deaths (2)

[Have some faith in Magic]

18 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

No danger of anyone sitting in Kelvingrove today.

Also explains the numbers - it's not hot and sunny very often so folk will go a bit mental and even more so with f**k all else to do for 14 weeks. 

It was the same last Saturday and the really hot days 3 or 4 weeks ago. 

 

[Dan Steele]

Boris Johnson's attempt to be like Churchill seems to be going well. Taking back control, a Brexit plane and now he's got folk acting out his hero's speech by fighting on the beaches.

[Big Fifer]

There's a fair few videos of folk scrapping in Kelvingrove from yesterday, which is likely what pushed things over the edge furra police. 

[ICTChris]

4 hours ago, pandarilla said:

Has this been clarified in terms of same times, same parts of beach?

Huge development if true - and one that the bbc breakfast news doesn't seem to be mentioning (instead focusing on the big problem of Bournemouth).
 

THe majority of the photographs of beaches that you see shared on social media with "OMG we are all gonna die"  are like this.  There were some shared from Portobello promenade that were like this.  People take long lens photos at ground level and everywhere looks packed.  None of them have been clarified by news reports or anything like that.  No-one cares.

[Gordon EF]

2 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

THe majority of the photographs of beaches that you see shared on social media with "OMG we are all gonna die"  are like this.  There were some shared from Portobello promenade that were like this.  People take long lens photos at ground level and everywhere looks packed.  None of them have been clarified by news reports or anything like that.  No-one cares.

Yep. I was at Portobello yesterday. It wasn't packed at all but if you stand in the water when the tide's out and look back at the beach, everyone looks really close due to the distorted persepctive.

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, ICTChris said:

THe majority of the photographs of beaches that you see shared on social media with "OMG we are all gonna die"  are like this.  There were some shared from Portobello promenade that were like this.  People take long lens photos at ground level and everywhere looks packed.  None of them have been clarified by news reports or anything like that.  No-one cares.

That's not quite true: plenty of people care about being able to indulge in self-righteous grandstanding against others for 'breaking the rules!!!1111!!!', which is why a media market exists for these consistently misleading images. 

[Donathan]

+17 cases (16)
+0 deaths (2)

First weekday with 0 deaths?

[Gaz]

Genuinely astonished why a park about a mile from the centre of Scotland's largest city was mobbed when the guidance clearly states not to go outwith roughly 5 miles. An absolute mystery why so many people were able to go

[Blootoon87]

First weekday with 0 deaths?

First since the 20th of March.