Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[ICTChris]

Cant believe that sage actually made these decisions tbh.
Herd immunity
Large crowds ok
Moving infected people into care homes
Masks not effective
Testing a waste of time

These are well respected experienced scientists with decades of good work behind them. It doesn't make any sense but they came out with things that a child would know is obviously a bad idea.
Scapegoats imo

I find that article kind of bizarre. Devi Sridhar quoted as saying that she was aware of asymptomatic transmission in February but the First Minister says she wasn’t aware until April, even though Sridhar was on the FMs Covid 19 advisory group? How can that be?

I think that a lot of scientists and advisors got things wrong in the early days of the pandemic but that doesn’t absolve the politicians of responsibility at all, they should be pushing their advisors and interrogating the advice.

[D.A.F.C]

I find that article kind of bizarre. Devi Sridhar quoted as saying that she was aware of asymptomatic transmission in February but the First Minister says she wasn’t aware until April, even though Sridhar was on the FMs Covid 19 advisory group? How can that be?

I think that a lot of scientists and advisors got things wrong in the early days of the pandemic but that doesn’t absolve the politicians of responsibility at all, they should be pushing their advisors and interrogating the advice.

None of it makes any sense. For all the expertise and knowledge you really need to ask questions of sage and the governments.
Sturgeon may have done better but still followed the same scientific advice.
Needs an enquiry.

[jimbaxters]

42 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

Cant believe that sage actually made these decisions tbh.
Herd immunity
Large crowds ok
Moving infected people into care homes
Masks not effective
Testing a waste of time

These are well respected experienced scientists with decades of good work behind them. It doesn't make any sense but they came out with things that a child would know is obviously a bad idea.
Scapegoats imo

There have been reprehensible decsions all the way along the line. Just as bad was when they finally admitted that they had revised the thinking on the list you have given, they set a date of 7-10 days in the future for the new advice/rules to be implemented. You couldn't make it up.

[madwullie]

32 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

None of it makes any sense. For all the expertise and knowledge you really need to ask questions of sage and the governments.
Sturgeon may have done better but still followed the same scientific advice.
Needs an enquiry.

Ive read that for far too long they were working on the assumption it was a flu, and therefore their procedures that they had in place to deal with a new flu would be sufficient. Whoops  

[madwullie]

12 hours ago, parsforlife said:

The government messaging seems to be only capable of focusing on one thing at a time.  With that happening it’s not that much of a surprise some people will think ‘instead of‘ rather than ‘as well as’

Yeah I've seen some anti-maskers argue on twitter that they're pointless as they only work if you are also keeping up hand hygiene

It's a bit like arguing seatbelts are unnecessary because we have airbags and brakes 

[ICTChris]

5 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Yeah I've seen some anti-maskers argue on twitter that they're pointless as they only work if you are also keeping up hand hygiene

It's a bit like arguing seatbelts are unnecessary because we have airbags and brakes 

It's interesting - one of the first articles I saw in the major press arguing for masks (*Zeynep Tufecki's piece for the Atlantic) touched on this point.  One argument against masks is that people don't keep up other measures but this argument has been used against almost all mandatory safety measures - car seat blets, drink driving laws, bike helmets - and there have been numerous studies done refuting it. People do not take more risks driving when they have a seatbelt on, for example.  

[D.A.F.C]

Ive read that for far too long they were working on the assumption it was a flu, and therefore their procedures that they had in place to deal with a new flu would be sufficient. Whoops [emoji2960] 

That does make sense, like they were following a protocol for an event that wasn't as serious.
Would ask why china would lock down millions though. We still had months to change.

[GiGi]

On 20/07/2020 at 11:08, jimbaxters said:

In Italy, the rules are that masks can be taken off when seated at a table but put back on when going to the bathroom etc.

I'm visiting pals in Germany in a couple of months and that's what they've said as well. Everything is open but you're expected to maintain 1.5m social distancing same rules as above for masks. Seems sensible enough to me and obviously will wear my mask travelling too.

[betting competition]

Todd is god is a bit late today with press conference on at 12.15 now 

22 new cases today 

0 deaths

Majority of these new cases in the last few days are in Lanarkshire 

Edited July 21, 2020 by betting competition

[Gallant Pioneer]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

 

I find that article kind of bizarre. Devi Sridhar quoted as saying that she was aware of asymptomatic transmission in February but the First Minister says she wasn’t aware until April, even though Sridhar was on the FMs Covid 19 advisory group? How can that be?

I think that a lot of scientists and advisors got things wrong in the early days of the pandemic but that doesn’t absolve the politicians of responsibility at all, they should be pushing their advisors and interrogating the advice.

 

Devi Sridhar did not join the advisory group until sometime in April

[Gallant Pioneer]

3 hours ago, D.A.F.C said:

Cant believe that sage actually made these decisions tbh.
Herd immunity
Large crowds ok
Moving infected people into care homes
Masks not effective
Testing a waste of time

These are well respected experienced scientists with decades of good work behind them. It doesn't make any sense but they came out with things that a child would know is obviously a bad idea.
Scapegoats imo

To be clear they weren’t intentionally moving infected people into care homes. They moved people who showed no symptoms, the issue is that these people were not tested  so could have carried the virus

Edited July 21, 2020 by Gallant Pioneer

[jimbaxters]

1 hour ago, GiGi said:

I'm visiting pals in Germany in a couple of months and that's what they've said as well. Everything is open but you're expected to maintain 1.5m social distancing same rules as above for masks. Seems sensible enough to me and obviously will wear my mask travelling too.

Everyone here in the Como region wears masks in public. It's actually more about common decency and manners now as you see people walking outside carrying the mask but popping it on when they pass someone. Not the easiest in the heat (circa 30 degrees just now) but it's not stopping the wearing of them. Enjoy your German holiday pal.

[Guest JTS98]

17 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

I see infections are down again in Sweden, and 7 day average deaths have fallen to 3.

Perhaps hope for all that second waves are not inevitable or as out of control as back in March and, even if infections do pick up slightly, they will drop again, and will do so without increasing the number of deaths.

It all depends on what you class a 'wave' as, and there is no consensus on this.

For example, Malaysia this week seems to have started on its third wave. We're catching up with the Feminists.

You can go through a list of countries the world over and see that a loosening of restrictions tends to lead to a new gathering of pace of cases. And it doesn't just take loosened restrictions, but the examples of Australia and New Zealand show that simple human error can lead to a new gathering of cases. We're possibly seeing evidence in Malaysia also of a new cluster formed by someone who should have been quarantined not being.

I know you've consistently tried to paint an optimistic picture. But it's not always a good thing to look on the bright side. When things are tough, people should acknowledge this. All the signs are that there are likely to be lots of tough days ahead. Especially since Britain and the Brits seem Hell-bent on international travel.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

1 hour ago, Gallant Pioneer said:

Devi Sridhar did not join the advisory group until sometime in April

I don't think Scotland had a separate advisory group set up until it became apparent the English were going to f**k it up.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1262876/Nicola-sturgeon-news-Scotland-coronavirus-news-cases-deaths

March 31

Quote

I can confirm today we are now seeking to supplement the advice from the UK Scientific Advisory Group on Emergencies, or Sage as it is known, and we are establishing a new Scottish Government Covid-19 advisory group

 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, alta-pete said:

Balls. It was another pointless ‘look at me, we’re doing it different’ (but we’re no’ really) piece of grandstanding from The First Lady. Go look up the Spanish infection rate then and now. I’ll wager no real reduction since. 

The recent outbreak in Catalonia is centred around Lleida which is of no threat whatsoever to any tourists as it's not the type of place where you'd find the average Scot going on their summer break.  I think the other thing you're missing is that it was also to do with how the authorities were dealing with the outbreaks such as accurately accounting and then tracking and tracing, we're now happy with this so a decision has been made.

Make no mistake, it's a fine balancing act between safeguarding public health and protecting business and peoples freedom of choice, however I firmly believe that NS has got the balance almost perfect throughout this crisis and don't honestly believe that She and the Scottish Government could have done much more, politics aside, can you hand on heart say that the UK Gov have done a better job ??

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

The recent outbreak in Catalonia is centred around Lleida which is of no threat whatsoever to any tourists as it's not the type of place where you'd find the average Scot going on their summer break. 

That's quite an optimistic view.

Are there any bartenders in Barcelona who live with their burd who has been back to visit relatives in Lleida?

On such unfortunate events are new clusters formed.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, JTS98 said:

That's quite an optimistic view.

Are there any bartenders in Barcelona who live with their burd who has been back to visit relatives in Lleida?

On such unfortunate events are new clusters formed.

I don't believe you'd be at any more risk of contracting the virus and bringing it home in Barcelona than you would if holidaying in the likes of Brighton or Bournemouth, that's for sure.

It's all about levels of risk and what's acceptable, otherwise we'd never leave the house and living in general would be a contradiction.

[Guest JTS98]

8 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

I don't believe you'd be at any more risk of contracting the virus and bringing it home in Barcelona than you would if holidaying in the likes of Brighton or Bournemouth, that's for sure.

It's all about levels of risk and what's acceptable, otherwise we'd never leave the house and living in general would be a contradiction.

Maybe, maybe not.

We're still in the early stages of covid-19. despite the narrative that some are pushing.

While I agree about the general point on acceptable risk, I think there's also a point to be made about necessary risk.

For example, the government where I live has decided that people can't jump on a plane surrounded by loads of other people and fly off to Thailand, or Indonesia, or even close-to-virus-free Vietnam, where they (my local government) don't control the social distancing measures or SOPs and they view that as a good way of keeping a kind of control over this.

The idea that flying off to other countries where the virus is still prevalent is a good idea is bonkers. And, since it's not necessary, it's quite remarkable to see so many people keen to do it. I think this is a decision that history will judge harshly.

How much risk you take is a choice. But at the moment it's a choice that impacts everyone in your community.

It's easy to see how a Lleida cluster becomes a Kilmarnock cluster. Without travel, that doesn't happen.

Edited July 21, 2020 by JTS98

[Todd_is_God]

So it seems 14 of the 22 cases were in Lanarkshire.

6,000 tests yesterday which is high for a Tuesday.

Hopefully these extra tests and infections are as a result of targetted testing of the staff, and test and protect contacting close contacts and identifying cases there, and it can be contained in the same way the factory in D&G was handled.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Maybe, maybe not.

We're still in the early stages of covid-19. despite the narrative that some are pushing.

While I agree about the general point on acceptable risk, I think there's also a point to be made about necessary risk.

For example, the government where I live has decided that people can't jump on a plane surrounded by loads of other people and fly off to Thailand, or Indonesia, or even close-to-virus-free Vietnam, where they (my local government) don't control the social distancing measures or SOPs and they view that as a good way of keeping a kind of control over this.

The idea that flying off to other countries where the virus is still prevalent is a good idea is bonkers. And, since it's not necessary, it's quite remarkable to see so many people keen to do it. I think this is a decision that history will judge harshly.

How much risk you take is a choice. But at the moment it's a choice that impacts everyone in your community.

It's easy to see how a Lleida cluster becomes a Kilmarnock cluster. Without travel, that doesn't happen.

I get what you're saying and it is a difficult one, from a personal perspective I'm fully intending on travelling to Catalonia in September (as things stand just now) as personally I see the risk as acceptable but if we're looking at zero risk and completely eradicating the virus then borders should probably be closed and that would most definitely include the Scotland / England border.