Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Guest JTS98]

33 minutes ago, virginton said:

You need to make up for the lost teaching time at some point when it is safe to do so. 

Teachers are employed by the state to provide a certain amount of teaching time to pupils over the period of the year to help them successfully reach their learning outcomes/qualifications. Given the unprecedented circumstances, that means having six days a week and fewer breaks in 2021 to make up for the hours that were not spent teaching and preparing from the staff, or learning from the perspective of the students.

That's not how learning works.

Classroom time is important, yes. But we also know that the real kicker is 'effective teaching time', not just the raw number of hours spent physically in the room. This is quite a well-studied area.

Having kids and teachers in six days a week with fewer breaks will give you more classroom time. But it will give you tired teachers and tired students, meaning much less effective teaching time. From a learning management point of view, six-day weeks for teachers and learners of school age not used to a regime like that would just be pointless. Absences would soar, concentration levels would plummet, the quality of classroom input would drop, student motivation would drop.

It would satisfy the Daily Mail angst of people who have a bee in their bonnet about teachers, but it wouldn't actually provide good learning.

[Marshmallo]

Cutting the summer holidays to 3-4 weeks in 2021 would be a better idea than having kids in 6 days a week.

[Guest JTS98]

9 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Cutting the summer holidays to 3-4 weeks in 2021 would be a better idea than having kids in 6 days a week.

There's decent evidence they should be cut to 3-4 weeks permanently. This is a good time to start.

[vikingTON]

4 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

That's not how learning works.

Classroom time is important, yes. But we also know that the real kicker is 'effective teaching time', not just the raw number of hours spent physically in the room. This is quite a well-studied area.

Having kids and teachers in six days a week with fewer breaks will give you more classroom time. But it will give you tired teachers and tired students, meaning much less effective teaching time. From a learning management point of view, six-day weeks for teachers and learners of school age not used to a regime like that would just be pointless. Absences would soar, concentration levels would plummet, the quality of classroom input would drop, student motivation would drop.

It would satisfy the Daily Mail angst of people who have a bee in their bonnet about teachers, but it wouldn't actually provide good learning.

Except that I'm not advocating for a permanent six day a week schedule champ but rather a temporary measure to make up for the enormous hours of physical classroom time that has already been lost. You can deploy the most efficient learning techniques and class structure possible from next week (though many teachers either won't bother or won't be able to implement this due to the need for behaviour control), it still won't actually get students to where they need to be in order to attain credible learning outcomes and qualifications. 

The question is therefore how you add that required additional teaching time into the schedule rather than whether it will leave the poor teachers/kids a bit tired. So your entire post can be safely filed into the bin as redundant then. 

 

[Billy Jean King]

I've misunderstood absolutely nothing: your rolling, furious meltdown about the injustice of being punted into lockdown is clear to see over the past three pages. This latest 'point' can be safely filed alongside your 'but... but... what about those from a BAME background we couldn't put them in lockdown cos that's racist?!!!!' in the growing pile of non-sequitur pish. 
You've been cheerleading literally every single government restriction on this thread so far on 'safety first' grounds: it's only right then for you to take your own autumn-winter lockdown medicine like a champ. 
 

And as always a total failure to accept you're wrong.

[ICTChris]

The First Minister felt like crying after seeing a picture of people queuing outside a pub in Aberdeen. She said similar about people sunbathing on Portobello beach a few months ago.

What will the next thing to make Nicola Sturgeon want to cry?

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, virginton said:

Except that I'm not advocating for a permanent six day a week schedule champ but rather a temporary measure to make up for the enormous hours of physical classroom time that has already been lost. You can deploy the most efficient learning techniques and class structure possible from next week (though many teachers either won't bother or won't be able to implement this due to the need for behaviour control), it still won't actually get students to where they need to be in order to attain credible learning outcomes and qualifications. 

The question is therefore how you add that required additional teaching time into the schedule rather than whether it will leave the poor teachers/kids a bit tired. So your entire post can be safely filed into the bin as redundant then. 

 

You highlight behaviour control. I'm glad you do, as it's something I missed out from my list of reasons why your 6-day week suggestion is poor.

I'm going to guess you've never taught and have no background in education whatsoever, either practically or from a research point of view.

So, I'll forgive your pub expert-level of opinion on the matter. Suffice to say that even for a period long enough to make up for what has been missed this year, a 6-day week would punish the students further. It would make knowledge retention harder, it would add stress and remove chances to lower stress through their freetime activities and simple time off. It would make the teacher's job essentially that of a glorified babysitter, since the chance of having a motivated class of students over an extended period of 6-day weeks is slim other than those working in elite schools.

Your idea is unworkable, unsupported by research, and could only be supported by a layman. It would exacerbate inequality while providing no discernible benefit to most students. It's not unreasonable to think it may actually harm the prospects of a lot of school-age students to suddenly have such an intense run of schooling with so little down-time.

But, aye, 'MAKE THE TEACHERS WORK!!!!'.

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, JTS98 said:

glorified babysitter

At this point, that's all parents want really isn't it?

[pandarilla]

Is anyone other than vton actually calling for this extra teaching measure?

I presumed he was just trolling, but is it actually a thing?

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

At this point, that's all parents want really isn't it?

Seems that way.

A better idea is to stick to five-day weeks and streamline.

[Dons_1988]

Just now, JTS98 said:

Seems that way.

A better idea is to stick to five-day weeks and streamline.

I agree with you, but as neither a parent or a teacher  my opinion can probably be 'safely filed in the bin' anyway.

I just know quite a few work colleagues who quite clearly just want the burden removed. They're fooling no one when they claim they just want their kids to be able to see their friends again 

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said:

I agree with you, but as neither a parent or a teacher  my opinion can probably be 'safely filed in the bin' anyway.

I just know quite a few work colleagues who quite clearly just want the burden removed. They're fooling no one when they claim they just want their kids to be able to see their friends again 

I don't blame them. It's completely understandable that people would feel that way.

But it doesn't mean they should be listened to.

[Todd_is_God]

11 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

What will the next thing to make Nicola Sturgeon want to cry?

Football supporters cheering too loudly

[Jacksgranda]

17 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

You highlight behaviour control. I'm glad you do, as it's something I missed out from my list of reasons why your 6-day week suggestion is poor.

I'm going to guess you've never taught and have no background in education whatsoever, either practically or from a research point of view.

So, I'll forgive your pub expert-level of opinion on the matter. Suffice to say that even for a period long enough to make up for what has been missed this year, a 6-day week would punish the students further. It would make knowledge retention harder, it would add stress and remove chances to lower stress through their freetime activities and simple time off. It would make the teacher's job essentially that of a glorified babysitter, since the chance of having a motivated class of students over an extended period of 6-day weeks is slim other than those working in elite schools.

Your idea is unworkable, unsupported by research, and could only be supported by a layman. It would exacerbate inequality while providing no discernible benefit to most students. It's not unreasonable to think it may actually harm the prospects of a lot of school-age students to suddenly have such an intense run of schooling with so little down-time.

But, aye, 'MAKE THE TEACHERS WORK!!!!'.

But are you a qualified teacher?

[mizfit]

The First Minister felt like crying after seeing a picture of people queuing outside a pub in Aberdeen. She said similar about people sunbathing on Portobello beach a few months ago.

What will the next thing to make Nicola Sturgeon want to cry?

Douglas Ross’s manifesto?

[Guest JTS98]

6 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

But are you a qualified teacher?

I'm better than that, thank you very much.

I just tell them what to do.

[Cosmic Joe]

12 minutes ago, mizfit said:

 

Douglas Ross’s manifesto?

 

Tears of laughter more like

[Melanius Mullarkey]

40 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

What will the next thing to make Nicola Sturgeon want to cry?

The fact that social media caused a lockdown. 

[madwullie]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

I'm not sure what point you are making here. No one is suggesting Sweden has no restrictions or guidance, nor is anyone, despite BJK's protestations, advocating that for here.

The question is why have they achieved almost identical results without the months long blanket lockdown we had here, if we are to believe our reduction in cases, deaths etc is solely the result of such drastic measures.

Was Ferguson's 96k deaths if they just didn't do anything, or if they put in mitigation measures without going as far as locking down? 

Edited August 3, 2020 by madwullie

[vikingTON]

43 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

You highlight behaviour control. I'm glad you do, as it's something I missed out from my list of reasons why your 6-day week suggestion is poor.

I'm going to guess you've never taught and have no background in education whatsoever, either practically or from a research point of view.

You guess wrongly, as usual. 

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So, I'll forgive your pub expert-level of opinion on the matter. Suffice to say that even for a period long enough to make up for what has been missed this year, a 6-day week would punish the students further.

'Punish the students' further than what exactly that has occurred so far? A three month glorified holiday before the summer break? Aye, I'm sure the vast majority of 14 year olds up and down the land have been distraught at having 25 more hours per week to spend on their Xbox m8.

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It would make knowledge retention harder, it would add stress and remove chances to lower stress through their freetime activities and simple time off.

As opposed to keeping schooling five days per week, which would of course avoid the difficulty of knowledge retention by the creative solution of students failing to actually complete the course in the first place. 

I'm afraid that additional stress being imposed on the poor wee weans at this point is just tough. There was a global pandemic: suck it up for a year or spend the rest of your life carrying completely worthless 'qualifications' that no sane employer is going to touch with a bargepole. That is the choice that a state has to make on behalf of its children and no sane person can advocate the latter. 

At no point have I said that having a six day a week, no holidays catch-up sesson is an ideal-type policy for the education system in perpetuity. It is however the only solution to the problem of the lost education brought about by the pandemic, so you're frothing against a straw-man argument here. 

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It would make the teacher's job essentially that of a glorified babysitter, since the chance of having a motivated class of students over an extended period of 6-day weeks is slim other than those working in elite schools.

'Make'? That's about 99% of the rationale behind opening patently unsafe schools on a full-occupancy basis starting from next week champ. 

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Your idea is unworkable

Well no, that's simply factually wrong. It is quite clearly workable to have a school open on a Saturday as well as Monday to Friday. Whether you want that to happen is an entirely separate point.

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unsupported by research

As opposed to all the research-led findings on how to catch up hours lost as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic in the Scottish education system, which are of course flying out of journals right now.

Quote

 

It would exacerbate inequality while providing no discernible benefit to most students. It's not unreasonable to think it may actually harm the prospects of a lot of school-age students to suddenly have such an intense run of schooling with so little down-time.

But, aye, 'MAKE THE TEACHERS WORK!!!!'.

 

More utter nonsense based on your inability to distinguish between the straw man argument that you want to challenge and an entirely different stance that I've set out. You're having an absolute nightmare here as usual. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by vikingTON