Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[madwullie]

27 minutes ago, engelbert_humperdink said:

Savvy to the overreaction of the both WM and Holyrood, not saying they are smart in other matters. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and the numbers being thrown out just don't make any sense to what we have seen thus far. Reports of infection rates dropping pre lockdown, the economy tanking, cancer screening dropping, the mental health effects on the population, job losses, all for a disease that the majority of fatalities would have succumbed to the flu, pneumonia or some other infection regardless of covid. Throw in covid being added to death certificates when not tested for and the whole thing stinks.

The numbers being thrown out and the "2nd wave" are no different to the 500,000 fatalities predicted with no lockdown. I would go as far to say there probably isn't 500,000 people in the UK that covid could kill. Absolute nonsense 

The covid on death certificate stuff is a prime example of people not understanding a process so drawing conclusions they want rather than trying to understand, and is a classic conspiracy theory that people spread about as fact. 

If someone dies and they suspect covid, what should they do? Who is persuading doctors to forge certificates, and to what purpose. And why are doctors going along with this? 

Do you think if doctors suspect flu to be a cause of death they get a diagnostic test run on a corpse to see if they were right? 

[Hedgecutter]

1 hour ago, MixuFruit said:

from *home* too

Big (bio)chemistry kits set up in their kitchens. 

Ends up in a 21st equivalent of the discovery of penicillin as somebody leaves something out too long as they tend to their banana bread. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Hedgecutter

[Todd_is_God]

4 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Do you think if doctors suspect flu to be a cause of death they get a diagnostic test run on a corpse to see if they were right? 

No, but then we don't get a running total of flu deaths every day.

I guess the challenge this year is to accurately record Covid & Flu deaths. People will likely die as a result of both, but I would imagine as we get towards the end of the winter flu season then we do need a clear picture of how many people Covid-19 is seriously affecting.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Snafu said:

 

Lord complains to BBC over Nicola Sturgeon's coronavirus briefings

A LABOUR peer has revealed he made a formal complaint to BBC Scotland over the First Minister’s daily coronavirus briefings, claiming they break Ofcom rules.

Since the beginning of the pandemic Nicola Sturgeon has delivered near-daily updates on the Covid-19 situation in Scotland, providing the latest figures on case numbers, virus prevalence, death statistics and more. The First Minister, who is typically joined by medical experts, then takes questions from journalists.

The briefings have won the First Minister praise and are linked to her soaring approval ratings in recent polls.

The Scottish Tories and Labour criticised the corporation for airing the briefings earlier this summer, accusing Sturgeon of using the public broadcaster as a platform to “score political points”.

It was also reported that the UK Government has “fears” about the briefings after seeing the First Minister’s approval ratings rapidly rise to 100 points ahead of Boris Johnson’s.

 

Number 10 hosted daily briefings on coronavirus but the Prime Minister did not make frequent appearances at them.

Downing Street held the conferences from March to June – shutting them down before pubs and restaurants reopened in England.

The Unionist parties appeared to cool off on their demands for Sturgeon’s briefings to be stopped as the Aberdeen coronavirus outbreak became serious and prompted the introduction of new lockdown restrictions in the city.

However now the Scottish Government says this cluster appears to be under control, Labour and Tory figures are once again complaining about the sessions.

George Foulkes, former MP and MSP, tweeted last night: “I’ve put a formal complaint to @BBCScotland that they are breaking Ofcom & BBC Charter rules on impartiality by broadcasting daily broadcasts by the SNP leader without the right of reply to Opposition parties. Others could follow this example!”

Hundreds of people replied to the "ridiculous" peer reminding him that there is still a global pandemic going on.

Lawyer Aamer Anwar responded simply “state of this one” to the Lord’s call to action.

SNP councillor Mhairi Hunter asked him: “Right of reply? What are they going to do, take turns to stand up and say remember to wash your hands?”

Commentator Angela Haggerty added: "Honestly, this kind of party politics around the pandemic is infuriating. I tune into the briefings every single day because it's a public health broadcast & I want to know every development. I want to protect my son. And tbh it's far more helpful/informative than combative FMQs."

The Scottish Government has been contacted for comment.

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I read this, however it explains EXACTLY WHY Nicola Sturgeon and indeed the SNP are going from strength to strength during this crisis. It also goes to show the cretin fest which we would have to endure / bear the brunt of, if some of those half wits were in charge instead.

Incidentally this should never be political, they should all be working together for the common good but unfortunately the opposition parties in Scotland appear incapable of this, although it's debatable that they would have had anything constructive to offer in any case.

[engelbert_humperdink]

12 minutes ago, madwullie said:

The covid on death certificate stuff is a prime example of people not understanding a process so drawing conclusions they want rather than trying to understand, and is a classic conspiracy theory that people spread about as fact. 

If someone dies and they suspect covid, what should they do? Who is persuading doctors to forge certificates, and to what purpose. And why are doctors going along with this? 

Do you think if doctors suspect flu to be a cause of death they get a diagnostic test run on a corpse to see if they were right? 

Dying of covid and dying with covid present are two different things though. The numbers don't make sense. I would go as far to say that covid has been put on certificates to warrant the lockdown and have an excuse as to why in the coming months/years to come when people are dying of other diseases that could have been prevented, and 5he economy has tanked then the government can boame this horrible disease. And not be blamed for their horrific overreaction of the pandemic. Perhaps

[engelbert_humperdink]

6 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Tbh I think a massive scoreboard of what's killing everyone being broadcast all the time would probably be quite a good idea. Expand it out from just covid.

Would show just how deadly covid is in the grand scheme of things

[Todd_is_God]

10 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Tbh I think a massive scoreboard of what's killing everyone being broadcast all the time would probably be quite a good idea. Expand it out from just covid.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, engelbert_humperdink said:

Savvy to the overreaction of the both WM and Holyrood, not saying they are smart in other matters. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and the numbers being thrown out just don't make any sense to what we have seen thus far. Reports of infection rates dropping pre lockdown, the economy tanking, cancer screening dropping, the mental health effects on the population, job losses, all for a disease that the majority of fatalities would have succumbed to the flu, pneumonia or some other infection regardless of covid. Throw in covid being added to death certificates when not tested for and the whole thing stinks.

The numbers being thrown out and the "2nd wave" are no different to the 500,000 fatalities predicted with no lockdown. I would go as far to say there probably isn't 500,000 people in the UK that covid could kill. Absolute nonsense 

If this was just a Scotland / UK issue then I could maybe see your point, however the entire world is in the same situation and the leaders of nearly every nation are also reacting in the same manner, some with even more draconian measures than anything any of us in this country have seen.

This virus is very real unfortunately and it IS killing people.

The real problems will come when the economic impacts really start to filter through, not just here but everywhere as realistically we can't go on like this indefinitely, as it will undoubtedly lead to revolutions and perhaps even wars throughout the world. Maybe then Governments will have a decision to make regarding the future as without a vaccine the future looks very bleak for us all.

In the short to mid term, it looks like the best solution may be a stop / start type of strategy where we lockdown for a few months to contain and reduce and then re-open for a few months until we are in a dangerous situation again which would require a return to the lockdown measures and rinse / repeat.

who knows ?

There are of course imponderables such as mutations making strains less deadly or on the flip side more deadly but whatever way you look at it, it's going to be a long and bumpy road ahead.

[Alert Mongoose]

15 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Tbh I think a massive scoreboard of what's killing everyone being broadcast all the time would probably be quite a good idea. Expand it out from just covid.

‘What gets measured, gets done.’

[Hedgecutter]

8 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Tbh I think a massive scoreboard of what's killing everyone being broadcast all the time would probably be quite a good idea. Expand it out from just covid.

This would be a genuine eye-opener to many that would see the e.g. polio 'score' constantly tick over.

... but because that doesn't affect the West, let's limit that to the occasional charity advert on daytime tv.

[engelbert_humperdink]

7 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

This would be a genuine eye-opener to many that would see the e.g. polio 'score' constantly tick over.

... but because that doesn't affect the West, let's limit that to the occasional charity advert on daytime tv.

Its ok though Bill Gates is on the case

[madwullie]

23 minutes ago, engelbert_humperdink said:

Dying of covid and dying with covid present are two different things though. The numbers don't make sense. I would go as far to say that covid has been put on certificates to warrant the lockdown and have an excuse as to why in the coming months/years to come when people are dying of other diseases that could have been prevented, and 5he economy has tanked then the government can boame this horrible disease. And not be blamed for their horrific overreaction of the pandemic. Perhaps

So yours and my GP is complicit in a government scam to restrict our freedoms, restrict his own freedoms, those of his children and his family? Your GP is merrily breaking any oaths or promises he has made to care for people, destroying his own professionalism so that the government can tell us to stay in our houses? What is his motivation for doing this? That's what you're suggesting here. "Perhaps" 

Edited August 29, 2020 by madwullie

[engelbert_humperdink]

2 minutes ago, madwullie said:

So yours and my GP is complicit in a government scam to restrict our freedoms, restrict his own freedoms, those of his children and his family? Your GP is merrily breaking any oaths or promises he has made to care for people, destroying his own professionalism so that the government can tell us to stay in our houses? What is his motivation for doing this? That's what you're suggesting here. "Perhaps" 

Who is releasing the figures. Show me a GP puttting covid on death certificates

[engelbert_humperdink]

4 minutes ago, madwullie said:

So yours and my GP is complicit in a government scam to restrict our freedoms, restrict his own freedoms, those of his children and his family? Your GP is merrily breaking any oaths or promises he has made to care for people, destroying his own professionalism so that the government can tell us to stay in our houses? What is his motivation for doing this? That's what you're suggesting here. "Perhaps" 

Do you recognise there is a difference of dying due to covid and dying with covid present

[engelbert_humperdink]

I know first hand, 3 poeple who have died due to cancer and have had covid on their death certifcate. Why? There must be an agenda to it all

[Todd_is_God]

27 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

If this was just a Scotland / UK issue then I could maybe see your point, however the entire world is in the same situation and the leaders of nearly every nation are also reacting in the same manner, some with even more draconian measures than anything any of us in this country have seen.

This virus is very real unfortunately and it IS killing people.

The real problems will come when the economic impacts really start to filter through, not just here but everywhere as realistically we can't go on like this indefinitely, as it will undoubtedly lead to revolutions and perhaps even wars throughout the world. Maybe then Governments will have a decision to make regarding the future as without a vaccine the future looks very bleak for us all.

In the short to mid term, it looks like the best solution may be a stop / start type of strategy where we lockdown for a few months to contain and reduce and then re-open for a few months until we are in a dangerous situation again which would require a return to the lockdown measures and rinse / repeat.

who knows ?

There are of course imponderables such as mutations making strains less deadly or on the flip side more deadly but whatever way you look at it, it's going to be a long and bumpy road ahead.

I think it's more likely governments will realise that chucking eyewatering amounts of money at a virus won't stop it, and in the not too distant future we will just learn to get on with it. Masks might stay, but the rest will go.

It might be the equivalent of a second flu season for a few years, but given we accept flu deaths without blinking there's no reason why we couldn't do the same here. It affects a similar demographic so it's unlikely the two together would be doubly deadly, if that makes sense, although there would be an increase.

A few handfuls of covid deaths each day during winter are not really newsworthy in a country of 66 million, and if we stop reporting the number of covid deaths daily people will stop looking at it like it's the apocalypse as was first feared. A weekly flu & covid dashboard would be enough.

Over time treatments will improve and a vaccine might roll out / it might f**k off, but we really can't afford to keep going as we are just now until then.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[madwullie]

6 minutes ago, engelbert_humperdink said:

Who is releasing the figures. Show me a GP puttting covid on death certificates

What? lol

[madwullie]

7 minutes ago, engelbert_humperdink said:

Do you recognise there is a difference of dying due to covid and dying with covid present

Yes, that has nothing to do with you claiming GPs are en masse lying on death certificates to facilitate the government robbing us of our freedoms, which is absolute tinfoil nonsense btw

Edited August 29, 2020 by madwullie

[madwullie]

7 minutes ago, engelbert_humperdink said:

I know first hand, 3 poeple who have died due to cancer and have had covid on their death certifcate. Why? There must be an agenda to it all

Of course you do. And yes that proves it. Case closed imo

[engelbert_humperdink]

13 minutes ago, madwullie said:

What? lol

A doctor at the hospital, not your local GP