Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[effeffsee_the2nd]

The current restrictions in Glasgow aren't anything close to lockdown. It's impossible to go back to the lockdown we had in March without furlough.

This was my point, you can’t tell people to stay at home whilst everything is open outside. If you do we have mass unemployment coupled with the effects of gyms and such closing again

[Steven W]

22 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

The current restrictions in Glasgow aren't anything close to lockdown. It's impossible to go back to the lockdown we had in March without furlough.

Its entirely possible. You just won't get paid for a few weeks. 

[Honest_Man#1]

4 minutes ago, Steven W said:

Its entirely possible. You just won't get paid for a few weeks. 

This is nonsense.

[John MacLean]

33 minutes ago, Aufc said:

 

If the parents support any of the old firm then there is a good chance they wont be doing any home schooling

 

17th Century history might be a specialist subject for some and is, sadly, taught at home but not sure where that sits on the current Scottish education curriculum. 

[The Moonster]

5 minutes ago, Steven W said:

Its entirely possible. You just won't get paid for a few weeks. 

If you genuinely believe that you're a fucking idiot.

[Billy Jean King]

Surely the national lockdown "circuit break" to "save Christmas" is simply being put out there to scare people into obeying the new 6 rules and the local measures. It seems rather than self isolating for 2 weeks if a close contact or family member tests positive huge swathes in that situation without any symptoms are simply booking a test and if negative are carrying on as normal as they simply don't want to isolate and see this (wrongly) as a viable alternative.

 

There were two students on STV news last night said exactly that was what they had done after their room mate had tested positive when asked why they simply said they didn't want to do the two weeks "detention " as they called it. No idea how you get the message to sink in to people like that. The message had clearly been understood so it's not like they didn't know the procedure ( self isolation for 2 weeks only book a test if you develop symptoms) they are just choosing to ignore it.

 

 

[hk blues]

8 minutes ago, Steven W said:

Its entirely possible. You just won't get paid for a few weeks. 

It's possible if you live where I am, but I live in a place where social welfare is practically non-existent and therefore people have no expectation of any support.  It's a hand to mouth existence at the best of times but people are used to it and get by.  Wouldn't imagine it could be conceived in the UK.

[Billy Jean King]

They should give MSPs of other parties an opportunity to ask questions if they continue to broadcast them. 

That already happens and it's currently televised every Thursday, it's called First Ministers Questions. Add in the daily (admittedly banal) media questioning and there is ample scrutiny already

[John MacLean]

42 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

Surely the national lockdown "circuit break" to "save Christmas" is simply being put out there to scare people into obeying the new 6 rules and the local measures. It seems rather than self isolating for 2 weeks if a close contact or family member tests positive huge swathes in that situation without any symptoms are simply booking a test and if negative are carrying on as normal as they simply don't want to isolate and see this (wrongly) as a viable alternative.

 

There were two students on STV news last night said exactly that was what they had done after their room mate had tested positive when asked why they simply said they didn't want to do the two weeks "detention " as they called it. No idea how you get the message to sink in to people like that. The message had clearly been understood so it's not like they didn't know the procedure ( self isolation for 2 weeks only book a test if you develop symptoms) they are just choosing to ignore it.

 

 

I think this post hits the nail on the head in many respects. 

At the beginning while there wasn't 100% total compliance with 'Lockdown' there was a broad willingness to follow it, in part out of fear. 

That 'Lockdown' was a success in terms of the NHS not being overwhelmed and the infection rates came down and continued to fall as we moved through the first phases of moving out of Lockdown. 

I think within that initial success you find the route to the current problem. 

We didn't see piles of bodies. The hospitals weren't overwhelmed and while a great many of us, myself included, will know of people who have tested positive the vast majority of us haven't been exposed to the very worst of Covid-19. It's other people that have been dying and lying in ICU beds and not our own kith and kin. 

The fear went but not the virus. 

As society opened up and we became more socialised again it was inevitable that infection rates would rise once more. Short of Covid-19 just disappearing I'm at a loss as to what else anyone would have expected to happen. 

As the fear went in came the complacency coupled with human beings' inherent selfishness. 

The level of compliance seen back in March/April has gone now. The head might have told us that without a vaccine things weren't going to be the same for a long, lone time but the heart told us that in six months time we would be jumping about much as we were beforehand. With the fear gone the fact that we aren't is causing great frustration and there is much greater reluctance to follow restrictions, especially those that have been reimposed. Apparent inconsistencies, both in terms of what you can and can't do and the geography of the restrictions, don't help either. 

Nor does human behaviour which to me focuses more on the individual than it does on our collective well-being. But I'm just a curmudgeonly old socialist who waffles on far too much. 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by John MacLean

[Rob1885]

I think this post hits the nail on the head in many respects. 
At the beginning while there wasn't 100% total compliance with 'Lockdown' there was a broad willingness to follow it, in part out of fear. 
That 'Lockdown' was a success in terms of the NHS not being overwhelmed and the infection rates came down and continued to fall as we moved through the first phases of moving out of Lockdown. 
I think within that initial success you find the route to the current problem. 
We didn't see piles of bodies. The hospitals weren't overwhelmed and while a great many of us, myself included, will know of people who have tested positive the vast majority of us haven't been exposed to the very worst of Covid-19. It's other people that have been dying and lying in ICU beds and not our own kith and kin. 
The fear went but not the virus. 
As society opened up and we became more socialised again it was inevitable that infection rates would rise once more. Short of Covid-19 just disappearing I'm at a loss as to what else anyone would have expected to happen. 
As the fear went in came the complacency coupled with human beings' inherent selfishness. 
The level of compliance seen back in March/April has gone now. The head might have told us that without a vaccine things weren't going to be the same for a long, lone time but the heart told us that in six months time we would be jumping about much as we were beforehand. With the fear gone the fact that we aren't is causing great frustration and there is much greater reluctance to follow restrictions, especially those that have been reimposed. Apparent inconsistencies, both in terms of what you can and can't do and the geography of the restrictions, don't help either. 
Nor does human behaviour which to me focuses more on the individual than it does on our collective well-being. But I'm just a curmudgeonly old socialist who waffles on far too much. 
 
 

well put

[Jacksgranda]

20 hours ago, Michael W said:

That can't happen. We're all going to have an adult conversation as to how we intend to live with the virus. Any day now, I'm sure... 

Two weeks time...

[Michael W]

The main problem with collective wellbeing is that there's a massive gap between people who suffer most from Covid and those who low risk from Covid but who are suffering from the restrictions. 

The initial lockdown was tolerable to address a severe and urgent problem, but continuing to trash the futures of the working age population is not an acceptable way to muddle through this. 

I also have to say that a few prominent examples aside, I am yet to see any evidence of mass non-compliance. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Michael W

[Todd_is_God]

22 minutes ago, John MacLean said:

As the fear went in came the complacency coupled with human beings' inherent selfishness. 

Those actively calling for tighter restrictions are equally selfish, though. Safe in the knowledge they can continue to work from home uninterrupted, they have little regard for those who would almost certainly lose their jobs in the event of another lockdown, with little to no prospect of getting another.

We aren't all "in it together" as those making the decisions like to portray, far from it.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, Billy Jean King said:

12 hours ago, NotThePars said:

They should give MSPs of other parties an opportunity to ask questions if they continue to broadcast them. 

That already happens and it's currently televised every Thursday, it's called First Ministers Questions. Add in the daily (admittedly banal) media questioning and there is ample scrutiny already

I can sorta get the beef oppo parties have with the briefings so if the BBC are so committed to neutrality then let a couple of MSPs ask questions. It's not like Sturgeon is currently being grilled by qualified experts. I'm sure Scottish Labour will benefit from having Jenny Marra and Ian Murray bump their gums on the tele.

[Todd_is_God]

48 minutes ago, John MacLean said:

The level of compliance seen back in March/April has gone now. The head might have told us that without a vaccine things weren't going to be the same for a long, lone time but the heart told us that in six months time we would be jumping about much as we were beforehand.

The vaccine chat was obvious nonsense from the start. 6 months to develop and roll out a brand new vaccine. The volume of people who bought that, and still cling to it, was staggering tbh.

The collective loss of persepective, and fixation on minimising / eliminating one singular cause of death, viewing them as somehow more tragic and unacceptable than any other, is fascinating to watch to be honest.

What has become clear, is that there is an almost total ignorance among the population to daily hospital numbers and death in general. This means that if there are 10 deaths per day people think and react as though this is terrifying and apocalyptic, despite this only increasing the total number of deaths over the period of a week from around 1,050 to 1,120.

Not only is that pefectly acceptable IMO (it's certainly not a valid reason to prevent you visiting family and friends), we haven't been anywhere near that level since the 5th of June. For context, that level is almost 20 times higher than right now. I'd be surprised if we got back up to that level tbh, with or without tighter restrictions.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[Thereisalight..]

10,000 fans are going to be at the Dortmund game this weekend, yet in 3 weeks time we still won’t allow fans to a Maybole v Girvan game

[hk blues]

5 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

What has become clear, is that there is an almost total ignorance among the population to daily hospital numbers and death in general. This means that if there are 10 deaths per day people think and react as though this is terrifying and apocalyptic, despite this only increasing the total number of deaths over the period of a week from around 1,050 to 1,120.

.

That's an extra 70 people per week so 3,500 per year.  In 2019 "only" 1748 died in road traffic accidents - half as many as your "only" 3,500.  

Hmm....

[Billy Jean King]

Those actively calling for tighter restrictions are equally selfish, though. Safe in the knowledge they can continue to work from home uninterrupted, they have little regard for those who would almost certainly lose their jobs in the event of another lockdown, with little to no prospect of getting another.

We aren't all "in it together" as those making the decisions like to portray, far from it.

There are plenty folk

WFH in industries under severe threat of redundancy eg travel agencies, airlines (ticketing), call centres, tele sales etc. Too big a generalisation to say home workers would be safe in their jobs if / when the next lockdown happens.

 

No one wants another blanket lockdown but it certainly now looks like the direction of travel being lead by WM govt in particular.

 

Extremely difficult for any of the other 3 nations to go against such a restriction in England if that's where they are heading.

 

BTW outwith those in government and the already discredited facebook maw brigade it's surely difficult to find many folk actively calling for Lockdown #2 amongst Joe Public but this is Britain and we are programmed to obey almost more than any other Western nation, it will be observed if it happens by the vast majority even those that bump their gums ( genuinely not having a personal pop there).

[John MacLean]

6 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The vaccine chat was obvious nonsense from the start. 6 months to develop and roll out a brand new vaccine. The volume of people who bought that, and still cling to it, was staggering tbh.

The collective loss of persepective, and fixation on minimising / eliminating one singular cause of death, viewing them as somehow more tragic and unacceptable than any other, is fascinating to watch to be honest.

What has become clear, is that there is an almost total ignorance among the population to daily hospital numbers and death in general. This means that if there are 10 deaths per day people think and react as though this is terrifying and apocalyptic, despite this only increasing the total number of deaths over the period of a week from around 1,050 to 1,120.

Not only is that pefectly acceptable IMO (it's certainly not a valid reason to prevent you visiting family and friends), we haven't been anywhere near that level since the 5th of June, and i'd be surprised if we got back up to that level tbh.

Curious to know why you decided to quote me there when nothing you've posted is related to my post. 

Was the word "vaccine" a trigger that got you frothing at the mouth and frantically typing? 

[Billy Jean King]

I can sorta get the beef oppo parties have with the briefings so if the BBC are so committed to neutrality then let a couple of MSPs ask questions. It's not like Sturgeon is currently being grilled by qualified experts. I'm sure Scottish Labour will benefit from having Jenny Marra and Ian Murray bump their gums on the tele.

As long as it isn't Leonard, they only have an hour !!!