Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Sergeant Wilson]

10 minutes ago, Szamo's_Ammo said:

Will the working from home thing be here to stay or will we revert back to old, traditional office-based ways once everyone is vaccinated?

Home working seems to work in Scandinavia but I get the impression the Tories will want everyone back to the office ASAP to keep rent rolling in on business premises for them and their friends.

Here's me on the odd days I'll be expected to go in.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Peston reporting there could well be a split in the 4 nations approach. England to stand by the 5 day easing but the other 3 nations may decide to go their own ways as they are not in agreement.

Even when this was first announced you got the distinct impression that the 3 nations were reluctant participants in the plans.

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, DAFC. said:

Christmas should be a write-off. What is so difficult to grasp for these c*nts in charge? Surely if we go in to a tough lockdown-lite, give it until March say just to get most of the vulnerable vaccinated, surely we’ll be in a much better place to start uplifting the measurements, given the rate of infection should be nowhere near as bad (3rd wave most likely if we go with what they have planned), stress on hospitals shouldn’t be as bad and would stop any needless deaths over one fucking day of the year.

Because the general populace wouldn't accept it and would go mental.

In addition there would be massive job losses and the economy would be knackered (although I wouldn't care about the last one).

13 minutes ago, Szamo's_Ammo said:

Will the working from home thing be here to stay or will we revert back to old, traditional office-based ways once everyone is vaccinated?

Home working seems to work in Scandinavia but I get the impression the Tories will want everyone back to the office ASAP to keep rent rolling in on business premises for them and their friends.

There will be plenty of businesses who will move to a working from home model in some way. Loads of folk have seen the massive benefits for themselves in working from home and so many simply won't want to go back to a daft way of working that benefits no one. Of course there will be loads of businesses and managers stuck in their ways absolutely desperate to get back to that way of working, but I think such places will quickly start to lag behind places who have a model of at least some home working if the employe wants it. Basically workplaces should be giving a choice or will be left behind.

[Honest_Man#1]

8 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Because the general populace wouldn't accept it and would go mental.

In addition there would be massive job losses and the economy would be knackered (although I wouldn't care about the last one).

There will be plenty of businesses who will move to a working from home model in some way. Loads of folk have seen the massive benefits for themselves in working from home and so many simply won't want to go back to a daft way of working that benefits no one. Of course there will be loads of businesses and managers stuck in their ways absolutely desperate to get back to that way of working, but I think such places will quickly start to lag behind places who have a model of at least some home working if the employe wants it. Basically workplaces should be giving a choice or will be left behind.

Agreed that for jobs that can be done (at least in part) at home the option should be there. I think I’m quite happy in my current situation of doing 2/3 days in the office and the other 2/3 at home and would be annoyed if they just revert back to 5 days in the office for no real reason. It’s a bit shite for the ones who do jobs that require them to be physically there that won’t have the option, but not much you can do about that.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

Agreed that for jobs that can be done (at least in part) at home the option should be there. I think I’m quite happy in my current situation of doing 2/3 days in the office and the other 2/3 at home and would be annoyed if they just revert back to 5 days in the office for no real reason. It’s a bit shite for the ones who do jobs that require them to be physically there that won’t have the option, but not much you can do about that.

We'll need a presence of a certain percentage of staff on top of the jobs that can't be done at home. I'm banking on enough Luddites who couldn't adapt to home working making up that percentage on a constant basis. Allowing the free of mind to stay in the house, venturing out only to travel to distant locations that attract expenses.

[ICTChris]

Listened to a Times podcast about the vaccine and vaccine hesitancy. The highest levels of opposition to taking a vaccine are among 18-24 year olds, highest willingness to take it is among the over 80s.

One contributor , an academic specialising in vaccine opposition, made the point that one of the focus points of vaccine hesitancy and opposition is ‘natural’ living, particularly among young women and mothers. She said that the healthy lifestyle, yoga, veganism, environmentalism etc ha given rise to a cohort of people who view vaccines with suspicion. This can be particularly important for childhood vaccines, as this group are often mothers. Another factor can be ethnicity, with some ethnic minority groups showing significantly reduced trust in vaccines.

She also said that Britain is a global epicentre of vaccine scepticism and hesitancy, thanks to the MMR scandal. Makes you proud, GSTQ [emoji636]

[Billy Jean King]

Went round to the care home a couple of days ago to drop my mother's birthday presents, obviously couldn't go in as the home is and has been on lockdown for some time. It was suggested that we could see each other through the window. I didn't expect my mother to recognise me as she hasn't seen me since March and she didn't. Just what is the point in this trying to speak through a window thing, it's very cruel if the resident doesn't know and is confused why the visitor can't go in and speak face to face and it's tough for the visitor, in my case my mother is hard of hearing, she knows sign language but I don't.  It was just all wrong. I'd rather phone up to check how she is, than go through that again.
A view on shielding, shielding should never mean isolation, this is a trap that those elderly who live alone can fall into.

Re shielding agree that after the initial lockdown those I know in the shielding category simply don't want to do it anymore. They know full well the risks and have made the decision they will take precautions and live their life as best they can like the rest of us. No one can force anyone to shield and the sheer isolation it creates especially in winter must be awful.

[NotThePars]

54 minutes ago, Szamo's_Ammo said:

Will the working from home thing be here to stay or will we revert back to old, traditional office-based ways once everyone is vaccinated?

Home working seems to work in Scandinavia but I get the impression the Tories will want everyone back to the office ASAP to keep rent rolling in on business premises for them and their friends.

 

Mind seeing Kamixlo and a few others in the Art School and he dropped this. Stone cold banger. Highlight of the night and I think it was the same night Evian Christ finished on Born Slippy and Gary McF.

[vikingTON]

19 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

28 minutes ago, Snafu said:

 

Re shielding agree that after the initial lockdown those I know in the shielding category simply don't want to do it anymore. They know full well the risks and have made the decision they will take precautions and live their life as best they can like the rest of us. No one can force anyone to shield and the sheer isolation it creates especially in winter must be awful.

Things that we can force people to do in the UK (2020 version):

- Close down their businesses indefinitely

- Deny self-employed employees eg in the live events any prospect of work or credible furlough support

- Punt people on Universal Credit worth just over £5k per annum

- Have the police hand out fines for leaving your local authority area

- Ban people from mixing with other people in their own houses for an indefinite period of time, among countless other infringements of literally everyone's free will

Things we cannot force people to do in the UK:

- Force vulnerable people whose serious illness is the only potential cause of the health service 'being overwhelmed' to just stay in their house to not get killed in a pandemic

And yet for some reason after nine months we're still scaling back with yet more everyday restrictions because the hospitals in parts of the UK are clogged with serious cases yet again. It's almost as if an inanimate virus doesn't really do 'fairness'.

Edited December 15, 2020 by vikingTON

[Billy Jean King]

Things that we can force people to do in the UK (2020 version):

- Close down their businesses indefinitely

- Deny self-employed employees eg in the live events any prospect of work or credible furlough support

- Punt people on Universal Credit worth just over £5k per annum

- Have the police hand out fines for leaving your local authority area

- Ban people from mixing with other people in their own houses for an indefinite period of time, among countless other infringements of literally everyone's free will

Things we cannot force people to do in the UK:

- Force vulnerable people whose serious illness is the only potential cause of the health service 'being overwhelmed' to just stay in their house to not get killed in a pandemic

And yet for some reason after nine months we're still scaling back with yet more everyday restrictions because the hospitals in parts of the UK are clogged with serious cases yet again. It's almost as if an inanimate virus doesn't really do 'fairness'.

You can't impose measures on a population at large then tell part of that population that they can't even get to follow those rules, they are basically grounded. No one can force anyone to "shield" it has to be a personal choice. Isolation would kill as many as Covid especially in winter. I doubt if we will ever see legally enforced shielding nor should we.

 

[vikingTON]

7 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

16 minutes ago, virginton said:

 

You can't impose measures on a population at large then tell part of that population that they can't even get to follow those rules, they are basically grounded.

Yes you can if it is in the wider interest of public health to do so. That is in fact the exact same logic behind enforcing self-isolation of those currently infected and imposing penalties on those who break it.

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No one can force anyone to "shield" it has to be a personal choice.

They can be instructed to shield and given the ability to do so and the vast majority would in fact comply as they did in the spring. Only if that proves not to be the case do you start considering penalties, but the idea that you can't possibly do so is nonsense. Of course you can - check out all the things above that have been binned and are subject to state sanction already.

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Isolation would kill as many as shielding especially in winter.

Complete and utter pish btw.

Quote

I doubt if we will ever see legally enforced shielding nor should we.

Which will of course lead us to as having just as fantastic an all-round set of outcomes for the second wave as the UK already racked up from the first. Finding new and ever more creative ways to f**k things up all along.

Edited December 15, 2020 by vikingTON

[Guest]

Looks almost certain that the Christmas relaxation will now be scrapped across the board.

They obviously sent out the yougov poll to test the water as it were and the results have given them the rationale to tighten things up.

As usual there will be "outrage" but it's a case of damned if they do damned if they don't.

[Marshmallo]

1 hour ago, philpy said:

Get this ridiculous tier system in the fucking bin. It's clearly not working. 

Nah a regional approach is better than blanket nationwide measures. Shetland or Orkney shouldn't have restrictions because the infection rate is high in Glasgow or Ayrshire.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Marshmallo

[Billy Jean King]

Which will of course lead us to as having just as fantastic an all-round set of outcomes for the second wave as the UK already racked up from the first. Finding new and ever more creative ways to f**k things up all along.

f**k that when you can still fly off on holiday with the max time you need to isolate on return is 10 days. There's the absurdity of it all right there, wanting to forcibly lock in and isolate one sector of society because they have the temerity to be in Aldi at the same time as yourself whilst others are still allowed a week burning the blubber in Madeira or Tenerife. Thankfully there is and won't be enforced shielding, just another in your long line of random attacks on different elements of society. You really are an odd little fellow.

[H Wragg]

Looks almost certain that the Christmas relaxation will now be scrapped across the board.

Can't see it going that far to be honest.

My mum has phoned tonight to cancel coming to ours on Christmas Day regardless of what happens.
She is in an extended household with my aunt and uncle so won't be on her tod.

[Marshmallo]

4 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

20 minutes ago, virginton said:

Which will of course lead us to as having just as fantastic an all-round set of outcomes for the second wave as the UK already racked up from the first. Finding new and ever more creative ways to f**k things up all along.

f**k that when you can still fly off on holiday with the max time you need to isolate on return is 10 days. There's the absurdity of it all right there, wanting to forcibly lock in and isolate one sector of society because they have the temerity to be in Aldi at the same time as yourself whilst others are still allowed a week burning the blubber in Madeira or Tenerife. Thankfully there is and won't be enforced shielding, just another in your long line of random attacks on different elements of society. You really are an odd little fellow.

It's a pandemic with a highly infectious disease which disproportionately has negative consequences for the elderly and those with underlying conditions. Far from "attacking" that section of society, it would appear to me that you are protecting them by ensuring they shield.

There are pros and cons to every possible approach we take. The current system is throwing millions into unemployment, ruining small businesses and restricting life for every single person in society.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Marshmallo

[Kneal Down Caster]

It's they manky mink!

Talking about inver Clyde again

[Billy Jean King]

It's a pandemic with a highly infectious disease which disproportionately has negative consequences for the elderly and those with underlying conditions. Far from "attacking" that section of society, it would appear to me that you are protecting them by ensuring they shield.
There are pros and cons to every possible approach we take. The current system is throwing millions into unemployment, ruining small businesses and restricting life for every single person in society.

It's akin to forceably vaccinating people. You can advise and recommend shielding but you can't enforce it. Put yourself in a position where say your diagnosed with terminal cancer, 12 months given. Would you spend that 12 months locked indoors or would you weigh up the risks, take sensible precautions like everyone else and try as far as measures allow to live your final months as best you can within the rules. I'm not advocating a f**k it, ditch all mitigation here.

Easy to advocate enforcement when it doesn't affect you directly.

[Steven W]

14 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Nah a regional approach is better than blanket nationwide measures. Shetland or Orkney shouldn't have restrictions because the infection rate is high in Glasgow or Ayrshire.

I agree, but only to an extent.

There is really zero prospect of any Central Belt LA reaching Tier 1 and for that reason the tier system wouldn't appear to be working.

The only thing that does work is a full lockdown, and if we were to go down that route, to prevent people travelling to Highlands and Islands it would need to be across the board.

A full March style lockdown is pretty unpalatable but at this point, and with furlough available it would, to my mind, do a whole lot more than the ineffective tier system.

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, Billy Jean King said:

Easy to advocate enforcement when it doesn't affect you directly.

Likewise if you don't work in tourism, hospitality or sport, for example.