Left Back Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, super_carson said: The first of those - I agree with (I appreciate you may not, Marshy, but I'm just speaking as teacher who is sick of his laptop). The second can take a big long f**k off to itself, and then when it's all the way fucked off, it can f**k off some more. I have absolutely no problem with religion in the slightest, live and live let live and all that. But there is absolutely no way we should be cherry picking what kind of gatherings are and aren't allowed. Why should someone be able to go to the church before the football, for example? Who is to say that one is more important than the other, rationally and objectively speaking. If the government start making arbitrary decisions about what is and isn't an acceptable then a lot of the rationale of these decisions fall down. I'm sure I've seen it mentioned that Leitch has strong religious beliefs? Ulterior motives for wanting churches opened maybe? I'd suggest the overwhelming majority of people in the country couldn't give two hoots about churches being opened up. I personally only know two people that are into religion (a retired minister and his wife) so opening up churches is not helping with any return to normality for the vast majority. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Marshmallo said: I took "haircut" to mean "reduce restrictions" rather than in a literal sense I didn't. Barbers didn't open until the middle of July last year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 It's absolutely wild how many people seem to be insinuating that only zero deaths are acceptable as an ongoing health / societal strategy. I mean humans have only been dying for as long as we've ever existed so it might just need a little more time for people to adjust to that fact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_carson Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Left Back said: I'm sure I've seen it mentioned that Leitch has strong religious beliefs? Ulterior motives for wanting churches opened maybe? I'd suggest the overwhelming majority of people in the country couldn't give two hoots about churches being opened up. I personally only know two people that are into religion (a retired minister and his wife) so opening up churches is not helping with any return to normality for the vast majority. I think you are right, although I don't actually know that for a fact. I get that churches etc. are important to many people and religion, churches, mosques etc. do good charity work in their local community and help individuals with a isolation; I'm not knocking that, or anyone who is religious either. But there are so many different organisations who cannot operate at the moment who do all those things. Zoom church services have been fairly successful, from what I've seen from the one my other half watches. Although if (and I'll accept it's probably a big if) it transpires that this is something Leitch, a supposedly religious man, has pushed for then that's wholly unacceptable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) Places of worship being given any sort of preference is rage-inducing. Pray in the bloody house FFS. Schools are expected, but really there needs to be a plan to vaccinate at least secondary school kids. Schools will have the distinction of being the only non-vaccinated setting by August and therefore are basically going to keep the virus in circulation. Perhaps school kids aren't impacted in the same way as some are, but given what we keep hearing about spread of the virus and can't be sure vaccines stop that, schools risk pulling us all down. Not to mention the famous quote that R can't be kept below 1 thanks to the "more infectious Kent variant". Edited February 10, 2021 by Michael W 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latapythelegend Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, WATTOO said: So what IS a necessity ? Going for a pint ?, going out for a meal ?, going to church ?, going to a football / rugby match ? None of these things are necessities either, however it would be a rather sad world if all we could do was work, sleep, rinse, repeat. They are things you can typically do all year round . Surely it makes more sense to have then sense of normality first for 50 weeks of the year instead of being desperate for a holiday 2 weeks of the year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said: That can GTF. Leitch is a bit of a bible-basher, but I'm sure that totally isn't influencing his decision to put opening up churches ahead of actual businesses... Anyway I worship Nat Wedderburn and will therefore be spending my Saturdays watching him performing roulettes on a soggy football pitch. It's not Leitch's decision, it's the Scottish Governments. Religion is clearly more important than non-essential businesses. Religion dictates how a lot of people live their lives. Just because those of us who aren't religious do not necessarily appreciate that doesn't make it less important. -6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Orton Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, Elixir said: Does this mean that even with the vaccine rollout complete and nobody going into hospital, that if case rates exceed 100 per 100,000 in future that the state can intervene to shut society down by diktat? It needs clarified, otherwise when does that madness ever stop? Its a bit worrying that all the emergency legislation that was passed is going to remain long after this is gone and be used regularly to impinge on people's previous freedoms. Not just the SG but all of them. We're already seeing an airbrushing campaign that seems to be trying to convince people tha last summer was normal. Tell enough people enough times they will eventually believe it. I'm not overly happy with the direction of travel in this regard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, Elixir said: Does this mean that even with the vaccine rollout complete and nobody going into hospital, that if case rates exceed 100 per 100,000 in future that the state can intervene to shut society down by diktat? It needs clarified, otherwise when does that madness ever stop? I must admit, I've been pretty pro Gov throughout this and thought erring on the side of caution was the way to go to try and stop as many deaths / serious illness as possible, however I've now got to the completely cheesed off point as there now seems no way out of this ?? We have the vaccines that they all heralded, we have all the new drugs and treatments that they said would stop lots of the fatalities, we've got a much better understanding of dealing with the virus, we've had major restrictions for months (approaching a full year) and yet over the past few days the rhetoric coming from all Governments appears to be that it's pointless, it's all been in vain and these restrictions will NEED to continue indefinitely !! Why ?? I thought it was about stopping deaths and serious illness, so have we not achieved that ?? Either the vaccine works or it doesn't surely ???? So, is this it ? is this life forever more ??, is this all we have to live for ??? The fact people are actually defending the banning of holidays just shows how screwed up / subservient our population has become, well, I'm sorry, but this simply can't go on indefinitely, another way out is needed and needed fast, before we all go bloody insane !!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, G51 said: Religion is clearly more important than non-essential businesses. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Folk who'd rather sit in the house for 51 weeks and spend 1 week in Lanzarote, rather than 52 weeks being able to do more or less what you liked here should, frankly, have their right to vote stripped. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, G51 said: It's not Leitch's decision, it's the Scottish Governments. Religion is clearly more important than non-essential businesses. Religion dictates how a lot of people live their lives. Just because those of us who aren't religious do not necessarily appreciate that doesn't make it less important. I would argue that there are more people impacted by not being able to work, trade and pay bills than there are about not getting to church on a Sunday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, G51 said: It's not Leitch's decision, it's the Scottish Governments. Religion is clearly more important than non-essential businesses. Religion dictates how a lot of people live their lives. Just because those of us who aren't religious do not necessarily appreciate that doesn't make it less important. Is it? tell that to the business owners that are facing financial ruin that praying to the sphagetti monster is far more of a priority. We're a secular society. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, G51 said: It's not Leitch's decision, it's the Scottish Governments. Religion is clearly more important than non-essential businesses. Religion dictates how a lot of people live their lives. Just because those of us who aren't religious do not necessarily appreciate that doesn't make it less important. Religion still rolls on when churches are shut though. Barber shops, not so much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, djchapsticks said: I would argue that there are more people impacted by not being able to work, trade and pay bills than there are about not getting to church on a Sunday. It's not just church on a Sunday - there is more than one faith in Scotland and their faith is observed in many different ways. If people are impacted by being unable to work, then this is an issue with the furlough scheme/lack of a UBI. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) Why the fcuk do churches need to open (in priority over any other venue that is) to cater for those that want to pray to their God of choice? You can pray in your living room, pray in the bathroom, join like minded religious pals and pray collectively by Zoom. I cannot watch St Mirren until they open St Mirren Park. I cannot go to see a band until they open the venue...... A church is a venue. No different from a football stadium, a concert hall, a restaurant, a barber shop, a cinema, a gym. Opening places of worship IS important, don’t get me wrong, but so is opening the gyms and other places again - as people gain pleasure not just from the praying / exercising / watching men kick a ball, but the social aspect of it being a place you go to with other people. There is no justification for prioritising a church over anywhere else people gather. St Mirren Park and the Barrowlands are far more fcuking important to me than the church down the road. Edited February 10, 2021 by pozbaird 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, G51 said: It's not Leitch's decision, it's the Scottish Governments. Religion is clearly more important than non-essential businesses. Religion dictates how a lot of people live their lives. Just because those of us who aren't religious do not necessarily appreciate that doesn't make it less important. He will be advising the Scottish Government though, I assume? It's probably a debate for another thread (and a much deeper debate that would delve into morals) but I cannot agree on religion being more important overall than 'non-essential' business. How many people are employed by a business currently being impacted by the lockdown? How many people will lose their jobs as a result? How many people will lose their religion as a result of only being able to watch church services online? And how will that impact their ability to feed their family, pay the bills and keep a roof over their head? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tynierose said: Its a bit worrying that all the emergency legislation that was passed is going to remain long after this is gone and be used regularly to impinge on people's previous freedoms. Not just the SG but all of them. We're already seeing an airbrushing campaign that seems to be trying to convince people tha last summer was normal. Tell enough people enough times they will eventually believe it. I'm not overly happy with the direction of travel in this regard. Was there not a poster on here a year ago suggesting all this stuff, think the sniffleratti were urging for him to be banned, apparently everything he posted was pish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Burnieman said: Is it? tell that to the business owners that are facing financial ruin that praying to the sphagetti monster is far more of a priority. We're a secular society. No we aren't, we're a multi-faith society with a significant number of secular people living within it. Having the right to practice your faith freely without obstruction is a significant part of the foundation of a free society. It's important that this resumes as quickly as possible. If business owners are struggling, then that's an issue with the government's financial supports. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, latapythelegend said: They are things you can typically do all year round . Surely it makes more sense to have then sense of normality first for 50 weeks of the year instead of being desperate for a holiday 2 weeks of the year? Just now, Gordon EF said: Folk who'd rather sit in the house for 51 weeks and spend 1 week in Lanzarote, rather than 52 weeks being able to do more or less what you liked here should, frankly, have their right to vote stripped. This is SO 1970's package holiday !! I honestly don't know anyone who only goes "1 week / 2 weeks in the summer to Lanzarote" etc. However I do know LOTS of people who travel abroad regularly (some are every 3 or 4 weeks), short breaks to Eastern Europe, Golfing Holidays to Spain / Portugal / Turkey etc, I know lots of the older generation who go long stays for 6 - 8 weeks in the winter to the Algarve / Canaries / Costa Del Sol / Malta / Cyprus etc, so i think you'll see that it runs just a tad deeper that "a week in Benidorm". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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