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3 minutes ago, G51 said:

It's not Leitch's decision, it's the Scottish Governments.

Religion is clearly more important than non-essential businesses. Religion dictates how a lot of people live their lives. Just because those of us who aren't religious do not necessarily appreciate that doesn't make it less important.

It may well be the SG decision, but he is a civil servant who has significant input into those decisions.  He may well not have applied any pressure, I don't know the man so I have no idea if that would be in his character, but it's not unacceptable for people to question the fact that a (seemingly) deeply religious man in a position of influence could have swayed the decision making process.  

Religion is not more important that non-essential business.  Certainly not at a societal or economic level.  Religion does not pay wages or taxes - they do not pay the bills and they are not a factor of the economy v. public health debate we should now be having.  They can afford to stay closed for slightly longer.

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3 minutes ago, G51 said:

It's not Leitch's decision, it's the Scottish Governments.

Religion is clearly more important than non-essential businesses. Religion dictates how a lot of people live their lives. Just because those of us who aren't religious do not necessarily appreciate that doesn't make it less important.

Leitch advises the government.

No-one is currently stopping anyone following their religion or living their lives according to their religion so why should they be given preference over say gyms which are equally as important to the people that utilise them.

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Just now, G51 said:

No we aren't, we're a multi-faith society with a significant number of secular people living within it.

Having the right to practice your faith freely without obstruction is a significant part of the foundation of a free society. It's important that this resumes as quickly as possible.

If business owners are struggling, then that's an issue with the government's financial supports.

Understand what secular means.  Noboody is stopping religious worship.

People's jobs are far far far more important to society than opening places of worship.

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Good to see that excluding TOO HONEST Belgium, and excluding countries under 1 million population.
Uk has now surged to be world leaders in Covid deaths per million at 1,672.
In effect 1 person out of every 600 in the UK.
How many P&B members are there ?

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1 minute ago, WATTOO said:

 

This is SO 1970's package holiday !!

I honestly don't know anyone who only goes "1 week / 2 weeks in the summer to Lanzarote" etc.

However I do know LOTS of people who travel abroad regularly (some are every 3 or 4 weeks), short breaks to Eastern Europe, Golfing Holidays to Spain / Portugal / Turkey etc, I know lots of the older generation who go long stays for 6 - 8 weeks in the winter to the Algarve / Canaries / Costa Del Sol / Malta / Cyprus etc, so i think you'll see that it runs just a tad deeper that "a week in Benidorm".

Well aye, of course it does. The point still stands though, if it's a binary choice between getting back to almost normal within the UK and no foreign holidays or foreign holidays but things still severely restricted here, anyone who'd choose the restrictions and holidays are either mental or extraordinarily selfish.

If you're retired and can afford trips all over the place, that'd be great. It's a bit "well f**k everyone else" though, isn't it?

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1 minute ago, superbigal said:

Good to see that excluding TOO HONEST Belgium, and excluding countries under 1 million population.

Uk has now surged to be world leaders in Covid deaths per 100 million at 1,672.

In effect 1 person out of every 600 in the UK.

How many P&B members are there ?

Per 100 thousand surely?!

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Just now, Gordon EF said:

Well aye, of course it does. The point still stands though, if it's a binary choice between getting back to almost normal within the UK and no foreign holidays or foreign holidays but things still severely restricted here, anyone who'd choose the restrictions and holidays are either mental or extraordinarily selfish.

If you're retired and can afford trips all over the place, that'd be great. It's a bit "well f**k everyone else" though, isn't it?

I mean, it appears just now that we aren't even being given that binary choice...

No holidays and severe restrictions seems to be the party line at this particular time.

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2 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Good to see that excluding TOO HONEST Belgium, and excluding countries under 1 million population.

Uk has now surged to be world leaders in Covid deaths per 100 million at 1,672.

In effect 1 person out of every 600 in the UK.

How many P&B members are there ?

599 once PerthshireBell's aliases are excluded. We should be fine.

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2 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

That was you was it no

No but he appears to have got more correct than the welter brains on here that rubbished everything he posted, he'll certainly not be surprised that we'll be living with restrictions of some sort for the next year or so. 

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Just now, djchapsticks said:

I mean, it appears just now that we aren't even being given that binary choice...

No holidays and severe restrictions seems to be the party line at this particular time.

I know but just talking about that hypothetical choice.

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3 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

 

This is SO 1970's package holiday !!

I honestly don't know anyone who only goes "1 week / 2 weeks in the summer to Lanzarote" etc.

However I do know LOTS of people who travel abroad regularly (some are every 3 or 4 weeks), short breaks to Eastern Europe, Golfing Holidays to Spain / Portugal / Turkey etc, I know lots of the older generation who go long stays for 6 - 8 weeks in the winter to the Algarve / Canaries / Costa Del Sol / Malta / Cyprus etc, so i think you'll see that it runs just a tad deeper that "a week in Benidorm".

So does the fact that some people can afford multiple holidays a year (probably less than 10% of the general population) mean they should be able to go where and when they want? 

Some retirees who want to spend the winter in the sun for months on end probably have a very comfortable life at home anyway through lockdown so cry me a river. The general point still stands. 

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1 minute ago, G51 said:

Having the right to practice your faith freely without obstruction is a significant part of the foundation of a free society. It's important that this resumes as quickly as possible.

If business owners are struggling, then that's an issue with the government's financial supports.

No one is stopping anyone practicing faith freely, there has been no ban on religion or religious festivals either.   In fact, many religions have adapted well, providing online services and hopefully, when the weather improves, outdoor services.  

You mentioned a free society.  Is it right, fair, or free, that business are forced into closures as a result of government legislation?  We aren't living in a free society right now, and places of worship need to wait their turn.  They won't help the economy bounce back which is, at this moment in time, far more important than communal prayers or services. 

 

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Just now, Burnieman said:

Understand what secular means.  Noboody is stopping religious worship.

People's jobs are far far far more important to society than opening places of worship.

Definition of secular: not connected with religious or spiritual matters. So it stands - Scotland is a country with many faiths and a significant number of secular people.

These restrictions are stopping religious worship - that is the point of them. Yes you can pray in your house in some religions, you can't for others. So these restrictions are having a significant, discriminatory impact on people of certain faiths. This must be rectified as quickly as possible.

This effectively comes down to what kind of society we want to be.

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Definition of secular: not connected with religious or spiritual matters. So it stands - Scotland is a country with many faiths and a significant number of secular people.
These restrictions are stopping religious worship - that is the point of them. Yes you can pray in your house in some religions, you can't for others. So these restrictions are having a significant, discriminatory impact on people of certain faiths. This must be rectified as quickly as possible.
This effectively comes down to what kind of society we want to be.
Secular means religion plays no part in Govt. The State is seperate from the Church.

So as a secular society, religion should not influence Govt decision making or hold any form of priority in such circumstances.
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Does this mean that even with the vaccine rollout complete and nobody going into hospital, that if case rates exceed 100 per 100,000 in future that the state can intervene to shut society down by diktat?
It needs clarified, otherwise when does that madness ever stop?
The "state" can intervene at 1 per 100k if they so choose if approved via parliament.
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