Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Left Back]

3 minutes ago, davidkennedyshand said:

Sounds like nobody except the Tory and the publican want anything open anytime soon.

Fiona Bruce hasn’t declared yet.

[Frankie S]

12 hours ago, ayrmad said:

Your venues will be some of the harder problems to overcome IF we've to live with SD going forward, my point about entrepreneurs was more about solutions to overcome SD. 

Drive by most hospitality venues and you'll see a few fans stuck to an outside wall, inside you'll likely see tables and chairs alongside some built in booths, currently most will have some forms of perspex dotted about, the fans and perspex are their to control and adjust the airflow in these venues, I'm just a layman but surely their must be the possibility of innovation creating a new way to control airflow whilst extracting and or neutralising any airborne nasties, having a booth that has no perspex separating it from the next one but rather an invisible pod created by a new system that keeps most of the crap from moving between different sections. 

The above, if possible, wouldn't eradicate Covid or similar in a venue but it would reduce it significantly. 

Like the majority of responsible bars and restaurants we (my Edinburgh outlet) invested significantly in perspex screens, improved ventilation (we already had a good ventilation system tbh) and other mitigations last summer. The hospitality industry in general spent millions on Covid protections, and instituted systems to maintain comprehensive customer databases to enable us to notify people in the event of an outbreak, as mandated by a government that had failed to institute its own effective track and trace system. Despite that significant level of investment, we were allowed to open for just over a couple of months (end of July until 8th October) in the last year, so it was a very expensive investment for a very short period of time, during which we had to observe severe restrictions on numbers, opening times and other conditions. We’d probably have been better off staying shut tbh. 

Nonetheless, irrespective of how much the industry had spent on mitigations, it took the Scottish government no time at all to take a broad brush, scapegoat the entire sector and close it down, and we’re going to be amongst the last sectors to be able to reopen.

One of the most frustrating aspects is that the entire industry (and I concede hospitality is a very broad church - there are responsible and less responsible operators) gets treated exactly the same. The best run outlets get smeared with the irresponsible practices of the worst. While the vast majority of operators are responsible, I’ve visited a few outlets (very much a minority) that spent almost nothing on Covid precautions, didn’t strictly observe the curfews, completely ignored the recorded music ban, failed to enforce social distancing, and generally had a half-hearted approach towards the guidelines, but as licensing standards officers weren’t actually visiting outlets and enforcing the regs during the time when hospitality was trading in central Scotland, the sector was only as strong as its weakest link. In the absence of an effective system off enforcement, in which irresponsible outlets could and should have been penalised and / or shut down, the government took the easier approach and demonised us all. 

As we saw with the recent Stirling University research paper on the hospitality industry, funded  by Scot Gov, which surveyed a tiny number of businesses (29) , there will alway be a proportion of rogue operators, and responsible operators will barely recognise the descriptions of practices within those establishments. 11 of 29 apparently had different groups freely mixing together, singing, shouting or otherwise breaching guidelines. That’s not the kind of pub I recognise, but that’s how the the industry is often perceived. I think those of us who did spend considerable sums of money on Covid mitigations have been deeply demoralised by how the hospitality industry as a whole has been stigmatised. I acknowledge there is no quick fix that will ensure you can stop a highly contagious respiratory virus from circulating within a highly populated indoor environment, and perspex screens, social distancing, improved ventilation etc are all mitigations rather than panaceas.

We know that the route back to normality is through comprehensive vaccination of the adult population, rather than through highly economically damaging and imperfect mitigations (and I include social distancing in that). What’s worrying the hospitality sector is that normality doesn’t seem to be on the table for the foreseeable future, even after full vaccination.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Frankie S

[Elixir]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/18/exclusive-covid-jabs-data-can-pave-way-freedom/

  Reveal hidden contents

Wait till they see the data from Israel showing it's more like 90% of infections. 

37 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Linda Bauld on Question time saying we don’t know if vaccines prevent transmissions and...but variants.

She also brought in a buzzphrase I haven’t heard before “escape mutants”.  Yes Linda, that’s what your birth was.

Has there been anyone more useless throughout this entire catastrofuck than 'public health experts'? They are the same freaks who would usually appear once in a blue moon in side articles telling us to cut back on red meat or to not go out in the sun too much if we don't want to develop cancer. All they're saying is what they would like to see in their own perfect little worlds that we don't actually live in. Honestly, things like that just show real incompetence, and/or sinister/selfish motives.

How and why they seem to have so much influence on government policy in this situation compared to actual relevant scientists like epidemiologists and virologists I will never, ever know. In Scotland, it seems that three utter clowns in Devi, Bauld and Leitch run the show, and not one specialises in these fields. Incredible.

[ayrmad]

9 minutes ago, Frankie S said:

Like the majority of responsible bars and restaurants we (my Edinburgh outlet) invested significantly in perspex screens, improved ventilation (we already had a good ventilation system tbh) and other mitigations last summer. The hospitality industry in general spent millions on Covid protections, and instituted systems to maintain comprehensive customer databases to enable us to notify people in the event of an outbreak, as mandated by a government that had failed to institute its own effective track and trace system. Despite that significant level of investment, we were allowed to open for just over a couple of months (end of July until 8th October) in the last year, so it was a very expensive investment for a very short period of time, during which we had to observe severe restrictions on numbers, opening times and other conditions. We’d probably have been better off staying shut tbh. 

Nonetheless, irrespective of how much the industry had spent on mitigations, it took the Scottish government no time at all to take a broad brush, scapegoat the entire sector and close it down, and we’re gong to be amongst the last sectors to be able to reopen.

One of the most frustrating aspects is that the entire industry (and I concede hospitality is a very broad church - there are responsible and less responsible operators) gets treated exactly the same. The best run outlets get smeared with the irresponsible practices of the worst. While the vast majority of operators are responsible, I’ve visited a few outlets (very much a minority) that spent almost nothing on Covid precautions, didn’t strictly observe the curfews, completely ignored the recorded music ban, failed to enforce social distancing, and generally had a half-hearted approach towards the guidelines, but as licensing standards officers weren’t actually visiting outlets and enforcing the regs during the time when hospitality was trading in central Scotland, the sector was only as strong as its weakest link. In the absence of an effective system off enforcement, in which irresponsible outlets could and should have been penalised and / or shut down, the government took the easier approach and demonised us all. 

As we saw with the recent Stirling University research paper on the hospitality industry, funded  by Scot Gov, which surveyed a tiny number of businesses (29) , there will alway be a proportion of rogue operators, and responsible operators will barely recognise the descriptions of practices within those establishments. 11 of 29 apparently had different groups freely mixing together, singing, shouting or otherwise breaching guidelines. That’s not the kind of pub I recognise, but that’s how the the industry is often perceived. I think those of us who did spend considerable sums of money on Covid mitigations have been deeply demoralised by how the hospitality industry as a whole has been stigmatised. I acknowledge there is no quick fix that will ensure you can stop a highly contagious respiratory virus from circulating within a highly populated indoor environment, and perspex screens, social distancing, improved ventilation etc are all mitigations rather than panaceas.

We know that the route back to normality is through comprehensive vaccination of the adult population, rather than through highly economically damaging and imperfect mitigations (and I include social distancing in that). What’s worrying the hostility sector is that normality doesn’t seem to be on the table for the foreseeable future, even after full vaccination.

I can't really disagree with much that you've posted, out of all the licence holders I've spoken to, none condone all the nonsense you hear about in the poorly run establishments, they all know that it's only going to negatively impact on their business. 

As for your last paragraph, I honestly don't see them getting rid of SD in the short term but the results of the vaccination programme might lessen the time and strictness of SD in hospitality. 

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

I'm sure the Main Players that lost their heads earlier over the pointless thoughts of some obscure citizens panel, will be as equally quick to condemn their beloved Rishi publicly courting the opinion of Gordon fucking Ramsay.

[ayrmad]

Have to say that it was refreshing to hear from the Tory and publican on QT, the only other person I've heard questioning things in recent weeks is John Beattie on Radio Scotland, he's just started calling bullshit on folk in recent weeks and I quite enjoy listening to him. 

[Elixir]

And another thing: this absolute fucking absurdity that 'but we don't know if the vaccines will cut transmission' will be doing precisely zero to encourage less vulnerable groups, who just happen to be the biggest spreaders, to actually take up on it. Already in Europe there are reports that some people aren't wanting to take the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine because of the shit-stirring that went on about its efficacy recently. The same goes for nonsense talk about restrictions not being fully lifted once the rollout is complete.

It is just utterly terrible messaging from the people who are apparently meant to know better.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Elixir

[Left Back]

4 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

Have to say that it was refreshing to hear from the Tory and publican on QT, the only other person I've heard questioning things in recent weeks is John Beattie on Radio Scotland, he's just started calling bullshit on folk in recent weeks and I quite enjoy listening to him. 

Thought the Tory came across very well.  Reasonable, logical, pragmatic.

I’ll await the incoming.

[tamthebam]

5 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

There has barely been a cheep from any MSP regardless of party about measures currently in place. They appear to have full cross party support in Scotland which seems very odd. Not once has Davidson, Harvey, Rennie or Baillie even mentioned releasing lockdown or complained about it being extended.
 

It seems the challenge to restrictions in Westminster comes from the sort of gammon "hang em and flog em" Tories from the "Shires".

I don't think our dear old Scottish Tories have an equivalent in Holyrood unless anyone knows better?

[The_Kincardine]

27 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

It seems the challenge to restrictions in Westminster comes from the sort of gammon "hang em and flog em" Tories from the "Shires".

I don't think our dear old Scottish Tories have an equivalent in Holyrood unless anyone knows better?

Cheap and ignorant posting..  Almost as bad as the idiotic posting over on the politics thread wherein the Natter Massive were speculating over the reintroduction of capital punishment.

No wonder that a failed and morally bankrupt administration in Holyrood gets so much credit for its incompetence when we have pish like this.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

5 hours ago, Elixir said:

^^^ word salad

Oh Paulo!!

 

You really are turning into a poor man's VT.

 

All we need is Ainsley for House!!

[DeeTillEhDeh]

4 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

 

Just bulldoze it.

[SlipperyP]

Looks like lockdown is hitting hard on few.....agreeing with Tory scum. Give yourselves a fucking shake.

[MuckleMoo]

Being reported that furlough will be extended into the summer

https://www.cityam.com/rishi-sunak-to-extend-business-rates-relief-and-furlough/

[Billy Jean King]

But, but she wants elimination ! Appears so must the now adored Tories.
As has been stated 101 times before and backed up with as many articles as this, bar a little tinkering at the edges, every country is basically following the same path out of this. That the plan isn't palatable to everyone is to be expected but it doesn't really look like there going to me too much deviation anywhere.

[Billy Jean King]

Being reported that furlough will be extended into the summer

https://www.cityam.com/rishi-sunak-to-extend-business-rates-relief-and-furlough/

There definitely seems to be a few rumours of that now surfacing. Sunak apparently has changed his views on lockdown exit and is coming round to the slow but sure way of thinking. I'm still sceptical as that would be a sea shift from him. A bit disappointing if true in a blanket manner.

[Aufc]

As someone else has mentioned, all of this talk of longer restrictions etc just makes me want indy ref 2 to be even less of a consideration at the moment. Genuinely couldn’t care less about it at this present time and would rather focus on having these restrictions lifted as soon as possible.

[101]

15 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

But, but she wants elimination ! Appears so must the now adored Tories.
As has been stated 101 times before and backed up with as many articles as this, bar a little tinkering at the edges, every country is basically following the same path out of this. That the plan isn't palatable to everyone is to be expected but it doesn't really look like there going to me too much deviation anywhere.

The exit from lockdown will be one of those "4 nations" things mainly because England will want to go faster but Scotland's numbers will already be lower so win win, problem being is what Wales and N.I want to do, I could see us all being extended until April 1st with maybe some relaxations on meeting outdoors which is hardly ideal.

[Billy Jean King]

The exit from lockdown will be one of those "4 nations" things mainly because England will want to go faster but Scotland's numbers will already be lower so win win, problem being is what Wales and N.I want to do, I could see us all being extended until April 1st with maybe some relaxations on meeting outdoors which is hardly ideal.

I doubt that in Wales going by Drakefords comments this morning. Furlough is the key to it all, it more than anything else forces the agenda.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

7 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Oh Paulo!!

You really are turning into a poor man's VT.

All we need is Ainsley for House!!

"Turning into"?

It's funny watching him try to ape posters that are simply much better at this sort of stuff than he is. I say funny, perhaps pitiful is more appropriate.