Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Guest TheJTS98]

29 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Whats going wrong in America that would make you critical? Again here, asking because I dont know.

How much better can vaccination go? 

USA's issues are not dissimilar to UK's, going by the news and from people I know who live there.

Lax about travel, mixed public messaging about how to minimise transmission (from federal govt and between states), over-eagerness to open things up quickly. Lots of unnecessary death and long-term illness.

Vaccination is not a job done yet in the UK.

Plenty of evidence that two jabs are needed to provide good protection against certain variants, and recent reports that about a third of adults still don't have that.

And, for all the exclamation marks on this thread, the risk of developing new variants is taken seriously by pretty much anyone credible you care to name. People don't seem to grasp that this could easily set things back and extend the whole process.

I'd quite like to be able to get home and visit my family. I'd quite like to be able to travel abroad for the first time in a year and a half.

What the UK is doing, as acknowledged by numerous governments and these scientists, is risking making that wait much longer - not to mention the inevitable extra unnecessary deaths and long-term illness. For example, there's now evidence that having covid significantly increases an individual's chance of developing type 1 or type 2 diabetes.

Edited July 17, 2021 by TheJTS98

[sparky88]

8 hours ago, Lyle Lanley said:

"I'm afraid the fundamental restrictions still apply though. An individual coming from an amber or a red country is a higher risk of virus, That, I'm afraid, is a fact."
 

What a horrible fucking c**t JL is. 

It's not his decision to make. He is just an adviser. Horrendous decision to put him up on Reporting Scotland though.

It's Sturgeon who has the power to make an exception. 

 

 

 

[Abdul_Latif]

Pretty sure Jason Leitch is due back on off the ball this afternoon.

Be interesting to see how he responds about full opening of stadiums (and other venues) without restrictions on 9th August. Fully aware he won’t make the decision, but he’ll have a fair idea what they are discussing at the moment and likely this will be the best insight to that we get.

[Empty It]

The knots some people tie themselves in trying to make out the SNP are great, its verging on North Korea Kim Jong-il, we thank our glorious leader Sturgeon for the gift of life.

[ICTChris]

If the changes on July 19th are so risky, should we be reintroducing harder restrictions? Infections have risen massively under the current restrictions regime, if this is risky should we not roll this back?

[Wee Bully]

8 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Just going on the available information. Do you see a flaw? Would you have flown straight home, or diverted to Mallorca?

I love the way the main event aren’t engaging with your point.  Almost as if it doesn’t fit their narrative

[Thereisalight..]

Roll them back? Don’t make me laugh. This is as good as it’s going to get. All the elderly and vulnerable have been double dosed for weeks/months. We shouldn’t wait until every last person over the age of 18 is double dunted. Infection rates can rise and rise but until there is evidence to show that those dying aren’t those in their 70s/80s/90s or those with underlying health issues then there is nothing more we can do. We’ve got to live with this like we do with every other infectious disease 

[Ron Aldo]

If the changes on July 19th are so risky, should we be reintroducing harder restrictions? Infections have risen massively under the current restrictions regime, if this is risky should we not roll this back?

I think there (finally) seems to be an admission from the government that the vaccines are battering the virus and any current variants (even if they won't come out and be quite as blunt as that).

I've thought it for a while the current messaging and reminders of the "dangers" of the virus and how we all need to be responsible etc. is to ensure people continue to comply with the current restrictions.

Thankfully the plan seems to be to batter on for now but I can't say I'm not a bit apprehensive for the winter as the narrative seems to be slowly shifting from Covid to every other virus in existence.

[Guest TheJTS98]

3 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

USA's issues are not dissimilar to UK's, going by the news and from people I know who live there.

Lax about travel, mixed public messaging about how to minimise transmission (from federal govt and between states), over-eagerness to open things up quickly. Lots of unnecessary death and long-term illness.

Vaccination is not a job done yet in the UK.

Plenty of evidence that two jabs are needed to provide good protection against certain variants, and recent reports that about a third of adults still don't have that.

And, for all the exclamation marks on this thread, the risk of developing new variants is taken seriously by pretty much anyone credible you care to name. People don't seem to grasp that this could easily set things back and extend the whole process.

I'd quite like to be able to get home and visit my family. I'd quite like to be able to travel abroad for the first time in a year and a half.

What the UK is doing, as acknowledged by numerous governments and these scientists, is risking making that wait much longer - not to mention the inevitable extra unnecessary deaths and long-term illness. For example, there's now evidence that having covid significantly increases an individual's chance of developing type 1 or type 2 diabetes.

Hiya, @Elixir

Curious as to which part of this you object to.

I mean, it's all just stuff that is checkable fact.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

[Elixir]

6 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/16/englands-covid-unlocking-a-threat-to-the-world-experts-say

“In New Zealand we have always looked to the UK for leadership when it comes to scientific expertise, which is why it’s so remarkable that it is not following even basic public health principles,” said Michael Baker, a professor of public health at the University of Otago and a member of the New Zealand ministry of health’s Covid-19 technical advisory group.

Also participating was Prof José Martin-Moreno of the University of Valencia, a senior adviser to the World Health Organization (WHO), who said: “We cannot understand why this is happening in spite of the scientific knowledge that you have.”

'Prof Christina Pagel, the director of University College London’s clinical operational research unit, told the meeting: “Because of our position as a global travel hub, any variant that becomes dominant in the UK will likely spread to the rest of the globe. The UK policy doesn’t just affect us. It affects everybody and everybody has a stake in what we do.”

I'm sure they're just a collection of 'lovejoys' whose concerns can be dismissed with a mixture of capital letters, lower case letters, and exclamation marks.

Reckless barely covers what's going on here.

A collection of international 'Political Independent SAGE' types. Good thing we know nonsense like this can instantly be filed in the bin. As for Michael Baker and New Zealand: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/17/no-return-to-normal-expected-in-post-pandemic-new-zealand-and-locals-say-thats-fine-covid-19

Quote

No ‘return to normal’ expected in post-pandemic New Zealand – and locals say that’s fine

People like you should ship off there immediately and let the rest of the world get on with it. Imagine thinking the UK with less than 1% of the global population, but one of the most vaccinated, is a 'threat to the world'. Utter psychopaths. The English decision to unlock on Monday is even supported by modellers at Imperial and Warwick, including Ferguson and Tyldesley, as delaying would merely increase the likelihood of a worse situation in winter. Again, get straight in the bin where you belong.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Elixir

[Guest TheJTS98]

2 minutes ago, Elixir said:

A collection of international 'Political Independent SAGE' types. Good thing we know nonsense like this can instantly be filed in the bin.

As for Michael Baker and New Zealand: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/17/no-return-to-normal-expected-in-post-pandemic-new-zealand-and-locals-say-thats-fine-covid-19

People like you should ship off there immediately and let the rest of the world get on with it. Imagine thinking the UK with less than 1% of the global population, but one of the most vaccinated, is a 'threat to the world'. Utter psychopaths. The English decision to unlock on Monday is even supported by modellers at Imperial and Warwick, including Ferguson and Tyldesley, as delaying would merely increase the likelihood of a worse situation in winter. Again, get straight in the bin where you belong.

My goodness.

I always think this thread might be different.

This is Daily Mail letter's page stuff.

Cheerio, then.

[Elixir]

10 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

Hiya, @Elixir

Curious as to which part of this you object to.

I mean, it's all just stuff that is checkable fact.

'Checkable fact' doing an awful lot of heavy lifting here.

Do you not know places like Florida and Texas exist?

 

7 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

My goodness.

I always think this thread might be different.

This is Daily Mail letter's page stuff.

Cheerio, then.

Good, I'm sure there will be some online Independent SAGE meeting watched by about 42 people you can join.

[Todd_is_God]

The problem we have is we still count every positive PCR test as a "case" which isn't a great method if we are wanting Lovejoys to stop shrieking.

For example, a vaccinated person who is exposed to Covid would likely still test positive despite not being infected at all.

16 months in, there really needs to be a better way to determine and count actual cases. We could start by only counting positive PCR tests in symptomatic people.

[anotherchance]

4 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

No, it's not about whether it has precedent or not. It's about whether it's a good idea or not.

Were I an American, I'd be very critical of how the American federal government have dealt with this, and how many of their states have dealt with this.

I think the advice from many different (and more successful) countries is quite clear. We wait.

I do not believe it is an economic necessity to reopen. Indeed, this argument has been widely discredited by how things have played out over the last year and a half. And the idea of removing restrictions around masks and mixing etc with a 'see what happens' attitude is bizarre.

Vaccination is going well. Carry on with that, continue a bit longer with restrictions, lift restrictions when numbers are lower and it won't expose so many people to illness and death. This is fairly standard elsewhere.

Low numbers, plus vaccination will save a lot of life and ill health. High numbers plus vaccination will lead to plenty of unnecessary suffering. This does not have to be done now.

Add in the potential effect beyond the UK and you've got a completely reckless approach that may end up making this not only worse, but making it last longer.

There isn’t an ideal, 100% suffering free for absolutely everybody, scenario - but there rarely is in life and the risks are hugely, hugely reduced now we have vaccines.

What the scientists and the modellers do is weigh things up based on calculated risk. There are plenty who have said that this is the “least worst” scenario (including Whitty) as it’s potentially best to have the exit wave in the summer when the schools are shut and before autumn hits.

The likes of Pagel and Clownshoes are sociopaths who only care about their own egos.

[Aubrey Maturin]

3 minutes ago, Snafu said:

I see the USA have detected their first case of monkey pox, should we be worried?

Should we all start digging survival shelters and bunkers in our back gardens?

There was cases in Wales last month.  Diagnosed by excessive tree swinging,beating of chests and watching old Tarzan episodes.

[Elixir]

3 minutes ago, anotherchance said:

There isn’t an ideal, 100% suffering free for absolutely everybody, scenario - but there rarely is in life and the risks are hugely, hugely reduced now we have vaccines.

What the scientists and the modellers do is weigh things up based on calculated risk. There are plenty who have said that this is the “least worst” scenario (including Whitty) as it’s potentially best to have the exit wave in the summer when the schools are shut and before autumn hits.

The likes of Pagel and Clownshoes are sociopaths who only care about their own egos.

Let's not forget having the audacity to want our lives back after 16/17 months of restrictions - in a now highly immune population!

Imagine thinking there aren't an entire plethora of health and social factors that go into the mix at this point. Myopic fools.

[101]

4 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

a vaccinated person who is exposed to Covid would likely still test positive despite not being infected at all

What do you mean by this?

The vaccine makes it 10 times less likely to be infected but I would imagine this would mean you wouldn't test +

We would also want to isolate positive cases for the time being, 1 it helps promote the vaccine 2 it helps protect the unvaccinated.

[williemillersmoustache]

12 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

My goodness.

I always think this thread might be different.

This is Daily Mail letter's page stuff.

Cheerio, then.

It's wild. This is like the missus's facebook groups from April last year.  Foaming hysterical spiked & GB News induced fucking drivel. 

[Dawson Park Boy]

4 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Whats going wrong in America that would make you critical? Again here, asking because I dont know.

How much better can vaccination go? 

Nothing.

From what I can discern, there doesn’t seem to be a great deal of difference between countries like Sweden which didn’t have a lockdown and ourselves. All that happens is that the deaths in the older and vulnerable population happen a little bit earlier.

Countries like Australia and NZ have total lockdown with their populations completely incarcerated. Certainly very few deaths but will they ever re-emerge as their vaccinations are very slow?

I think our calculated risk of allowing things to kick off during the summer amongst the young and healthy is a risk worth taking and hopefully, after peaking we should reach some kind of herd immunity. Let’s go for it.