Scotland v Israel

[Jacky1990]

14 minutes ago, Beth Paige-Black said:

We'd all be very comfortable with KT starting at left back.   I'd also be slightly concerned with him starting at CB or indeed RB.   But I'd be very concerned with Cooper or O'Donnell starting at CB or RB.   He has to start every game for us.  

You would be worried about English Championship winning Leeds United captain Liam Cooper playing at centre back?

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

27 minutes ago, AJF said:

Defending out wide down the line using pace, timing and interceptions is Tierney’s bread and butter and he is great at it. However, you’ll know it is quite different to defending being a centre back dealing with forwards backing in, aerial duels and physical battles.

I’m not saying he couldn’t do it, I’d just be slightly concerned if we are lining him up for a centre back slot.

Aye its not ideal but our alternatives are pish so he'd probably still be better than them.

[Beth Paige-Black]

1 minute ago, Jacky1990 said:

You would be worried about English Championship winning Leeds United captain Liam Cooper playing at centre back?

Goodness yes.   I watched English Championship winning Norwich City captain Grant Hanley playing at centre back.   Not good enough.  

He's only played two times for Scotland ,  I wasn't impressed.  Not because we got thumped in both games but he seems like to lack game understanding.   Running out to contest ball he cannot win.   We lost shape and there's holes in behind.   

I'm not saying AT ALL it's the partnership I'd pick but Declan Gallacher and Stuart Findlay looked more composed in comparison.  

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, ScoRoss said:

Suspensions have never been handed out for joining the rest of the city in a bar... It's a bit of a different case. 
Of course he wasn't on 'national team business', but he was hardly on the clock for Aberdeen either.
If the SFA are punishing the players for this, they can't just decide he is free to play for their own team. Seems a bit weak by them, or just convenient.

The SFA have charged him with bringing the game into disrepute and failing to comply with their rules. They are doing so in both cases because he is a registered Aberdeen player who breached the rules which relate to domestic football. These offences have very clear punishments laid out, all of which are bans for club football.

International football is governed by an entirely different set of rules governed by UEFA, not the SFA. Matty Kennedy isn't going to be banned for the Northern Ireland game so why would McKenna be banned for Scotland?

So in fact the SFA can and will decide he is free to play for Scotland whilst subsequently being suspended for Aberdeen, because that is in their own rules which Aberdeen and by proxy McKenna signed up for.

Edited August 25, 2020 by craigkillie

[Blootoon87]

You would be worried about English Championship winning Leeds United captain Liam Cooper playing at centre back?

I would be.

[ScoRoss]

19 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The SFA have charged him with bringing the game into disrepute and failing to comply with their rules. They are doing so in both cases because he is a registered Aberdeen player who breached the rules which relate to domestic football. These offences have very clear punishments laid out, all of which are bans for club football.

International football is governed by an entirely different set of rules governed by UEFA, not the SFA. Matty Kennedy isn't going to be banned for the Northern Ireland game so why would McKenna be banned for Scotland?

So in fact the SFA can and will decide he is free to play for Scotland whilst subsequently being suspended for Aberdeen, because that is in their own rules which Aberdeen and by proxy McKenna signed up for.

Again, you're treating this like a normal footballing matter. 

The SFA saw fit to suspend games because of this, so obviously they see it as a serious matter. Obviously not serious enough to have him represent the country next week...

If they are so serious about making an example of these players and showing other not to do the same, it's a bit of a farce if he's strolling about the Hampden pitch for Scotland.

I never mentioned Northern Ireland, so you've just pulled that out of nowhere.

[skippy2015]

Absolutely not. McBurnie is doing well in the top end of the English Premier League and Dykes has just secured a 2mil move down to England. TBF I don't know what Oli Burke has done to deserve a call up: the boy is absolute mince. I also have no idea why Lawrence Shankland was picked, who hasn't kicked a ball at all this season. I guess it shows though how little options we have, but I believe we've called up worse. I can't think of any other candidates tbh. Kevin Nisbet maybe but he is injured. Ross Stewart has started well at Ross County this season, so could argue the case for him. 
I can remember a time we were playing guys like Nigel Quashie, Scott Dobie and Kevin Kyle up front. That was brutal. 

Burke scored an 89 min winner from the bench against cyprus. A great header hit the post then scored the rebound. But all accounts his game has improved the last year so deserved place in squad a good impact player to come of the bench as he’s proven.

[ScoRoss]

2 minutes ago, resk said:

It's pretty normal to have players suspended for some competitions / teams and not for others. Eg. if the eight Dons get a long domestic ban and we get through to the next Europa League round, they'd be able to play in the Europa League matches but not the domestic games either side of the Europa League matches (I think).

 

Similarly, Cosgrove could get a ban in Scotland and piss off to League 1 in England and never actually "serve" it. The Sfa could have asked Clarke to leave McKenna out of the squad, I suppose, but that would be a bit wild, and they haven't. As has been pointed out to you, they can't / won't ban him from international matches.

 

Suspensions for different clubs / competitions / national teams isn't what I'm talking about. I understand how suspensions for different competitions work.

But its very hypocritical for an organisation to charge someone with such a serious offence and then turn round and ask that person to represent them first...

[resk]

Suspensions for different clubs / competitions / national teams isn't what I'm talking about. I understand how suspensions for different competitions work.
But its very hypocritical for an organisation to charge someone with such a serious offence and then turn round and ask that person to represent them first...

Right, so accepting that the Sfa can't directly ban McKenna from playing international fitba, what do you actually think should happen? They ask/tell Clarke not to select him?

[ScoRoss]

Just now, resk said:

14 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

Suspensions for different clubs / competitions / national teams isn't what I'm talking about. I understand how suspensions for different competitions work.
But its very hypocritical for an organisation to charge someone with such a serious offence and then turn round and ask that person to represent them first...

Right, so accepting that the Sfa can't directly ban McKenna from playing international fitba, what do you actually think should happen? They ask/tell Clarke not to select him?

Probably.

The SFA give out 2 match bans for players caught spitting at an opponent. Considering that's the minimum that McKenna will get for joining the rest of the city in Soul, it's clear they deem his actions worse than that.

If a Scotland player was charged by the SFA of spitting at an opponent, shouldn't they have it considered that player perhaps shouldn't be representing the national team a week after being charged?

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

14 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

Probably.

The SFA give out 2 match bans for players caught spitting at an opponent. Considering that's the minimum that McKenna will get for joining the rest of the city in Soul, it's clear they deem his actions worse than that.

If a Scotland player was charged by the SFA of spitting at an opponent, shouldn't they have it considered that player perhaps shouldn't be representing the national team a week after being charged?

No.  They are unrelated.  Next question

[resk]

I think the Sfa should enforce and obey their and Uefa's rules, do what seems fair and proportionate, and maximise the chances of their representative teams winning matches. I disagree with you calling it "hypocritical" to pick McKenna, but clearly we aren't going to agree on anything here.

[IggyStooge]

On 04/03/2020 at 11:27, ICTChris said:

Israel qualified for the 1970 World Cup, lost 2-0 to Uruguay and then drew 1-1 with Sweden and 0-0 with Italy.  Nothing since.

Not a single team from the AFC confederation would agree to play against them so they advanced to the Oceania stage which was extremely weak at the time, even then only New Zealand and Australia would agree to field a team against them... even North Korea withdrew at this stage after qualifying from the AFC stage.

Same thing happened in 1958 (only this time no-one at all would play them) but FIFA insisted that they must play at least one game, so they picked Wales as a lucky loser and the Welsh were victorious in the one-off game. Wales famously went all the way to the quarter-finals (beating Hungary in the group stage) only to find a 17-year-old Pele's Brazil barring any further progress..

[Jacky1990]

4 hours ago, Beth Paige-Black said:

Goodness yes.   I watched English Championship winning Norwich City captain Grant Hanley playing at centre back.   Not good enough.  

He's only played two times for Scotland ,  I wasn't impressed.  Not because we got thumped in both games but he seems like to lack game understanding.   Running out to contest ball he cannot win.   We lost shape and there's holes in behind.   

I'm not saying AT ALL it's the partnership I'd pick but Declan Gallacher and Stuart Findlay looked more composed in comparison.  

Cooper is being managed by one of the most respected coaches in the world, who is happy for him to be his main centre back and captain.

Of all our centre backs, he is currently playing at the highest level, its mental he has less caps than someone like Mikey Devlin. He should absolutely be our first choice centre back right now.

Gallacher and Findlay played against Cyprus, Kazakhstan and San Marino. Cooper played against Russia and Belgium. Of course they looked more composed in those games.

Is Cooper a world beater? No, far from it. But he is the best we have right now unless Tierney manages to pull it out the bag.

[Jacky1990]

3 hours ago, Blootoon87 said:

4 hours ago, Jacky1990 said:

You would be worried about English Championship winning Leeds United captain Liam Cooper playing at centre back?

I would be.

Which of our centre backs do you rate higher than him?

[Blootoon87]

Which of our centre backs do you rate higher than him?

None of them, they're all varying degrees of shiteness. I've only seen Cooper a handful of times and he always looks like a red card waiting to happen.

[skippy2015]

Marshall

Tierney
Cooper
McKenna
Robertson

Mcgregor
Mctominay

Christie
McGinn
Forrest

Mcburnie

[Smokerson]

The centre back pairing will be Tierney and one other I think, you would think that would be McKenna or Copper, both left footed so presents a slight problem playing at Right centre back but not the end of the world.  I would personally go with Cooper based on what I have seen of both in Scotland games and on the TV with their clubs.

[The Moonster]

5 minutes ago, Smokerson said:

both left footed so presents a slight problem playing at Right centre back 

If they were both right footed centre halves would anyone be saying "it gives us a problem at left centre back"? Tierney and Cooper are English Premier League players. They can kick the ball with both feet.

[charger29]

Clarke got a little evasive when asked about Tierney as the RB on Sportsound last night. He's definitely talked to Tierney about it but whether it's the plan for this game or long term I don't know. Personally I don't really like the idea but our record with him playing there is decent so I can't really complain much.
A settled squad for the next few months is key to progress. We can get away with some injuries in midfield and LB but need time to find a long term solution at CB.