The SPFL recommendation?

[Shadwell Dog]

7 minutes ago, SirJimmyofNic said:

Null and voiding the season is rewarding teams for failure and penalising teams at the top

 So does ending the season now. Any team in a playoff promotion spot is penalised whilst those in relegation playoff spots are rewarded with safety including brechin.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[Clyde01]

Null and Void the Season and reconstruct the Lower Leagues to two Divisions of 15, play each other twice, home and away, that gives you 8 less League games so the pressure of starting Season 20-21 up in time can be shifted out to late September, early October and we can also get rid of the League Cup and Challenge Cup for a year, if a National “All-Clear” is given before then then the Cups can be easily reinstated to be played to a finish in those 8 free weeks!!!

That probably sounds a great idea if you are a top half league one side, but if you are a bottom half league one side it’s a shit show.

[Gordon EF]

15 minutes ago, SirJimmyofNic said:

Null and voiding the season is rewarding teams for failure and penalising teams at the top

it's not penalising teams at the top. Raith cannot be penalised by not being given promotion because they have not earned promotion.

If teams at the top are concerned with fairness and getting what they deserve, rather than just taking advantage of being in the right spot when the music stopped, they should be 100% trying to find a way to finish the season when we can and not jumping all aboard the call it now bandwagon.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Gordon EF

[King Kebab]

18 minutes ago, Clyde01 said:

 

That probably sounds a great idea if you are a top half league one side, but if you are a bottom half league one side it’s a shit show.

 

You are right but I would still have suggested it if we were Sixth!!!

Its still the only reasonable way I can see of reducing the fixture list but still making it a viable Season!!!

It should also keep the games competitive as the Top 5 from the bottom League would all be promoted to the reconstituted League One the following Season!!!

[East Fife is best]

Reading on bbc website that EFL clubs can resume training from May 16th and complete there season withing 6 weeks in June/July after 3 weeks training so surely the same can be done here

Surely there won't be 1 rule for English sport and another for Scottish sport

[AL-FFC]

36 minutes ago, SirJimmyofNic said:

Null and voiding the season is rewarding teams for failure and penalising teams at the top

How is it ?, you havent completed the season its not like your in Dundee Utd shoes and 14 points ahead if you were 14 points ahead of us then yes but you have just as much chance of finishing 4th in the league as you have of finishing 1st, whos to say Raiths bottle wouldnt crash and you lost your remaining fixtures.

[Shadwell Dog]

8 minutes ago, East Fife is best said:

Reading on bbc website that EFL clubs can resume training from May 16th and complete there season withing 6 weeks in June/July after 3 weeks training so surely the same can be done here

Surely there won't be 1 rule for English sport and another for Scottish sport

Players down south must have a different view from those up here who have categorically knocked back any chance of closed door matches.

[SirJimmyofNic]

2 minutes ago, AL-FFC said:

How is it ?, you havent completed the season its not like your in Dundee Utd shoes and 14 points ahead if you were 14 points ahead of us then yes but you have just as much chance of finishing 4th in the league as you have of finishing 1st, whos to say Raiths bottle wouldnt crash and you lost your remaining fixtures.

I was talking from the monetary point of view , if the powers that be decide to divide the league prize pot between the ten teams then Stranraer and the bottom clubs would get a lot more than 70k and teams like yourself and us n Falkirk a lot less.

Cause no doubt there would be a gripe if it was paid out on current standings

[East Fife is best]

Surely closed door games and finishing the season is proper and means clubs will promoted on merit

Also surely playing Sat/Wed for 6 weeks including play offs would be viable and push start of next seasok back to end August and go away with betfred cup see's it all sorted and in the same time frame

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

You just shift the same arguments onto other clubs with reconstruction though.

So we say we'll do away with relegation and promote two clubs to each division, going 14-10-10-10. That removes objections from Hearts, Partick & Stranraer, and means ICT, Falkirk and Edinburgh City go up along with the top placed clubs while Brora and Kelty get promotion without a playoff. All those clubs are now happy with it.

However if it would be such an injustice for Raith to go up ahead of Falkirk without the remaining games being played that the current proposal can't possibly be acceptable, why would it be okay for Falkirk to go up ahead of Airdrie, Montrose and East Fife, or for ICT ahead of Dundee and Ayr, or for Kelty ahead of Bonnyrigg? Surely the exact same principle applies to all of those clubs?

So you then look for a proposal that gets Dundee & Ayr promoted along with ICT and go for a 16 team top flight, but then Dunfermline and Arbroath can complain they had a entirely realistic chance of catching those two. Or you resolve the League One complaints by going 14-14-14 and promoting six which ensures everyone in the title race gets up, but then Clyde can argue they had a realistic chance of finishing sixth ahead of Dumbarton. You end up with some perceived injustice no matter what you do.

If you try to reconstruct your way out of unfairness you'll end up with a 42-46 team league. There's no perfect solution.

Whatever 'deal' is finally agreed upon it simply cannot be one where a team who had no chance of relegation actually is effectively relegated. In this example I of course use Clyde. Any reconstruction that means we go back to playing Division 3 teams plus Stranraer, Forfar etc. is in all essence a relegation.  Ten points and 13 goals better off than Forfar means it would take total collapse for Clyde to get relegated even via a play-off.  The loss of income of doing this would probably be the end for Clyde and frankly even if it was not I would probably call it a day having gained promotion via football to have it taken away again.

Whatever reconstruction, if any, needs to ensure all clubs are no worse off than currently. You cannot for example construct something that say gives Raith, Cove or Dundee Utd (or worse still Kelty) a promotion because they happen to be top now, but relegates a team like Clyde or Peterhead, or Alloa or QOS. 

I don't hold out much hope for a fair solution as frankly those that govern the game have shown themselves to be incompetent, lacking integrity and cowardly in the past on more than one occasion.

 

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, East Fife is best said:

Surely closed door games and finishing the season is proper and means clubs will promoted on merit

Also surely playing Sat/Wed for 6 weeks including play offs would be viable and push start of next seasok back to end August and go away with betfred cup see's it all sorted and in the same time frame

I take it the players have somehow formed an immunity to the virus?

[Shadwell Dog]

5 minutes ago, SirJimmyofNic said:

I was talking from the monetary point of view , if the powers that be decide to divide the league prize pot between the ten teams then Stranraer and the bottom clubs would get a lot more than 70k and teams like yourself and us n Falkirk a lot less.

Cause no doubt there would be a gripe if it was paid out on current standings

You only get 125 for winning league one. Peanuts really. Not sure what the average would be but as 70k is for 10th you wouldnt be losing out on an awful lot.

[SirJimmyofNic]

5 minutes ago, East Fife is best said:

Surely closed door games and finishing the season is proper and means clubs will promoted on merit

Also surely playing Sat/Wed for 6 weeks including play offs would be viable and push start of next seasok back to end August and go away with betfred cup see's it all sorted and in the same time frame

Thats a big ask for part time players and clubs with a relatively small squad

Edited April 9, 2020 by SirJimmyofNic

[craigkillie]

58 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Serious question here, why are we happy to force through automatic promotion and relegation but void play-offs?

Why shouldn't we promote Kelty, Edinburgh City, Falkirk, ICT and relegate Brechin,Forfar, QoS, Hamilton?

If we're happy to say that it's unfair to discount 75% of the season and decide to award promotions and relegations based on what the most likely outcomes of finishing the season would be, why not do that for play-offs? 

Why would you promote Kelty and not Brora? Why would you promote Edinburgh City but not Cowdenbeath, etc. All of those clubs are in play-off places right now, and those play-offs can't be played. That's the obvious difference. Why would any individual team winning the play-off be the "most likely outcome"?

[Paco]

Reading on bbc website that EFL clubs can resume training from May 16th and complete there season withing 6 weeks in June/July after 3 weeks training so surely the same can be done here

Surely there won't be 1 rule for English sport and another for Scottish sport

They’re ‘aiming’ to start training in mid-May. They almost definitely won’t be, and this is just a fudge to kick the can down the road for when Uefa have made a decision.

Closed door games also will need government permission that, as of this moment, I see little chance of being granted.

[haufdaft]

I can't see how voiding the season will result in sponsors (eg Ladbrokes) being legally able to claim all their money back.

 

If this did happen, I'll be demanding a refund of my multitude of losing bets using the same principle suggested

 

I wonder if Ladbrokes would pay out?

 

Maybe I'll also demand 100% refund from BTsport too

 

 

[macclyde+]

12 minutes ago, East Fife is best said:

Surely closed door games and finishing the season is proper and means clubs will promoted on merit

Also surely playing Sat/Wed for 6 weeks including play offs would be viable and push start of next seasok back to end August and go away with betfred cup see's it all sorted and in the same time frame

The EFL article appears to be a 'best case' scenario, and I would guess is highly unlikely to happen. 

I can't see the government allowing football to resume when in all likelihood many will still be losing their lives to the virus.

Bit of perspective needed here I feel, I'm sure the EFL clubs would be better off financially in that scenario, but at what cost ??

[Dunning1874]

16 minutes ago, East Fife is best said:

Surely closed door games and finishing the season is proper and means clubs will promoted on merit

Also surely playing Sat/Wed for 6 weeks including play offs would be viable and push start of next seasok back to end August and go away with betfred cup see's it all sorted and in the same time frame

It's feasible that Premiership clubs could play behind closed doors without a crippling financial loss, with clubs broadcasting their home games online and charging a fee for it. At that level enough people may watch and enough money could come in to make playing behind closed doors doable, although it still isn't going to be the same as matchday revenue.

In the lower leagues that's a non-starter. Asking clubs to take players off furlough and pay them in full again in order to play games but also have no one paying at the gate will bankrupt all of us.

15 minutes ago, SouthLanarkshireWhite said:

Whatever 'deal' is finally agreed upon it simply cannot be one where a team who had no chance of relegation actually is effectively relegated. In this example I of course use Clyde. Any reconstruction that means we go back to playing Division 3 teams plus Stranraer, Forfar etc. is in all essence a relegation.  Ten points and 13 goals better off than Forfar means it would take total collapse for Clyde to get relegated even via a play-off.  The loss of income of doing this would probably be the end for Clyde and frankly even if it was not I would probably call it a day having gained promotion via football to have it taken away again.

Whatever reconstruction, if any, needs to ensure all clubs are no worse off than currently. You cannot for example construct something that say gives Raith, Cove or Dundee Utd (or worse still Kelty) a promotion because they happen to be top now, but relegates a team like Clyde or Peterhead, or Alloa or QOS. 

I don't hold out much hope for a fair solution as frankly those that govern the game have shown themselves to be incompetent, lacking integrity and cowardly in the past on more than one occasion.

 

See, I've said that I don't think we can reconstruct our way out of this, but I don't agree with this. I don't think it should or will happen anyway, but Clyde are currently in the third tier and under the 14x3 proposal would be in the third tier. That's not being relegated.

[Shadwell Dog]

Just now, Dunning1874 said:

It's feasible that Premiership clubs could play behind closed doors without a crippling financial loss, with clubs broadcasting their home games online and charging a fee for it. At that level enough people may watch and enough money could come in to make playing behind closed doors doable, although it still isn't going to be the same as matchday revenue.

In the lower leagues that's a non-starter. Asking clubs to take players off furlough and pay them in full again in order to play games but also have no one paying at the gate will bankrupt all of us.

See, I've said that I don't think we can reconstruct our way out of this, but I don't agree with this. I don't think it should or will happen anyway, but Clyde are currently in the third tier and under the 14x3 proposal would be in the third tier. That's not being relegated.

The players union  have already said games behind closed doors are a non starter though.

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

4 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

It's feasible that Premiership clubs could play behind closed doors without a crippling financial loss, with clubs broadcasting their home games online and charging a fee for it. At that level enough people may watch and enough money could come in to make playing behind closed doors doable, although it still isn't going to be the same as matchday revenue.

In the lower leagues that's a non-starter. Asking clubs to take players off furlough and pay them in full again in order to play games but also have no one paying at the gate will bankrupt all of us.

See, I've said that I don't think we can reconstruct our way out of this, but I don't agree with this. I don't think it should or will happen anyway, but Clyde are currently in the third tier and under the 14x3 proposal would be in the third tier. That's not being relegated.

Of course it is in a financial sense. Not having gates against Airdrie, Falkirk and Raith/Partick would penalise us. It is only finances that will drive the reconstruction, not football, so penalising Clyde and others like us would be wrong. I'm sure StJ, Hamilton and Kilmarnock would be a bit annoyed if reconstruction had them playing Dunfermline, QOS and Alloa instead of second home games against Rangers, Celtic and Hearts. If I am wrong then by all means re-cut it that way and leave us playing those we have found ourselves with through merit.