The SPFL recommendation?

[Yoss]

6 minutes ago, Big Fifer said:

This will probably end up passing. It's complete shite, especially the one rule for lower leagues and one for the Prem (old firm), but I suspect there will be enough teams desperate to avoid the relegation play offs/happy to take the cash for mid table. We might even be one.
Can't believe clubs are going to end up relegated like this, seems absolutely outrageous and a lukewarm "we might look at reconstruction" does not change that.

I think the only reason for that is because UEFA have warned about not getting into the European competitions if the seasons aren't completed.

[San Starko Rover]

What happens if we vote for it, promoting Dundee Utd but then the Premiership don't relegate Hearts?

[Frankly, Mr Shankly]

Do it. I miss crowds

[fifer67]

A big no from me a few unjust sporting integrity calls if that is used to promote and relegate teams . You just knew the the people behind Scottish football would come up with something so controversial. 

[Jack Burton]

Here is how to resolve this.
No Winners No losers. No Champions. No Relegations No Trophies.
Premiership 2020/21 Increase to 13 teams, with Dundee United joining PL. Play 24,  Split 6/7,  Play 10/12.  13th and 12th relegated, 11th Playoffs Season, 2021/22 12 Teams. 
Championship 2020/21 Increase to 14 teams with Raith Falkirk Airdrie Montrose East Fife joining Championship.  Play 26,  Split 7/7, Play 12.  1st Promoted 2nd 3rd Playoffs.  14th and 13th relegated, 12th Playoffs. Season 2021/22 14 Teams
Div1/Div2 Increase to 18 teams with Brora Kelty Bonnyrigg joining the extended Div 1. Play 34 no split. 1st Promoted, 2nd 3rd Playoffs. 17th 18th relegated, 16th Playoffs. Season 2021/22 18 Teams.
No League Cup or Tunnocks Cup 2020/21. 
Free weeks here and there, not a problem.
 
 
 

No losers? ICT and other Championship teams in play off position loss out. No promotion for Cove and the bottom half of league 1 gets papped into the bottom league.

[NUMBER 7]

2 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

34 minutes ago, NUMBER 7 said:

Here is how to resolve this.
No Winners No losers. No Champions. No Relegations No Trophies.
Premiership 2020/21 Increase to 13 teams, with Dundee United joining PL. Play 24,  Split 6/7,  Play 10/12.  13th and 12th relegated, 11th Playoffs Season, 2021/22 12 Teams. 
Championship 2020/21 Increase to 14 teams with Raith Falkirk Airdrie Montrose East Fife joining Championship.  Play 26,  Split 7/7, Play 12.  1st Promoted 2nd 3rd Playoffs.  14th and 13th relegated, 12th Playoffs. Season 2021/22 14 Teams
Div1/Div2 Increase to 18 teams with Brora Kelty Bonnyrigg joining the extended Div 1. Play 34 no split. 1st Promoted, 2nd 3rd Playoffs. 17th 18th relegated, 16th Playoffs. Season 2021/22 18 Teams.
No League Cup or Tunnocks Cup 2020/21. 
Free weeks here and there, not a problem.
 
 
 

No losers? ICT and other Championship teams in play off position loss out. No promotion for Cove and the bottom half of league 1 gets papped into the bottom league.

 

It makes Clyde favourites for promotion to Championship 20/21

 

 

[Yoss]

Anyways. No one really wants this, and I'd certainly be pretty embarrassed going up under these circumstances - really not sure if I'd be happy to take it or not.

But ... the chances of getting games under way in time to finish the season is virtually nil. Continuing beyond that - or finishing the season in next season's time - might be more attractive from a fan's / sporting point of view but causes all kinds of logistical headaches in terms of clubs trying to budget, player contracts and so forth. In the meantime, leaving things hanging on is also going to be causing headaches - do clubs need to keep maintaining pitches and keeping other contingencies in place for a potential restart in six weeks time? 

I think, sooner or later, it's going to be inevitable that the season will be scrubbed. It'll then be a straight choice between voiding it and leaving clubs where they are for another year, or promoting / relegating based (directly or indirectly) on current positions. Club bias aside, I don't know what my preference is - either is obviously harsh on someone.

I'm not, however, in favour of league reconstruction - at least not for the sake of this. If there are solid arguments for longer-term reconstruction anyway then fine, but I'm not particularly aware of any groundswell for that. But avoiding some unfairness for two or three clubs in the short term would be a terrible rationale for it.

[Shadwell Dog]

Why not just pay out the bloody prize money the now but aim still to finish off the league if possible. As I said on our thread if we went on to win the league we'd miss out on 18k but I very much doubt that would disappoint us as we'd be going up.  Keeps clubs that are skint afloat and hopefully keeps the integrity of the league in place.

[CALDERON]

Its not a fair proposal at all, in reality.  

However, the only fair option is finishing the season naturally with the current squads as they were when play was stopped.  That, especially at this level, just doesn't look like its going to be able to happen any time soon.  Certainly not without causing absolute mayhem for next season, and given we have the Euros next year, there will be pressure to get that finished in decent time.  I'd love to have some away days at some of my favourite grounds this summer, during a title race, but it just wont happen. Some people think finishing the season is in any way possible - but its not just about giving prize money early - clubs cost structures depend on what league they are in (Season tickets, attendances etc) and the longer you apply "lets see if we can finish it" the more that becomes unworkable.  

Null and void is every bit as unfair as these proposals really - for every currently wronged club you appease you then wrong someone else.  

I certainly don't want to see Raith Rovers win promotion this way, it takes all of the emotion and fun out of a game thats depends on those very things.  But even trying to be impartial, I'm really not sure what else can be done other than providing a bit more clarity on reconstruction other than some bullshit line.  I can kind of understand the rationale behind treating the Premiership differently.  There would at least be some appetite for an Old Firm game to be played behind closed doors for example, I imagine enough people would pay to watch that to make it vaguely worthwhile - there would be minuscule interest in these leagues though.  

It doesn't appear that null and void is on the table and it doesn't look like the SPFL see completing this season, at our level, as feasible in any way at all.  So my gut feeling will be that this proposal will not be voted through, but will see various bolt ons until such time as it does.  Is that the right thing to do? Who knows, but we have never ever seen anything like this in our lifetimes and all going well we never will again.  Its as unprecedented as you can get.

I think it will be a close vote though.  It's easy to assume that clubs in playoff positions across our leagues will vote against it, but if the season doesn't finish then they wont have a chance to go up anyway - and this option, as flawed as it is, provides clarity and more importantly some much needed cash.  Money talks, and it will be tempting for a lot of clubs to get some cash in the door at a time when nobody knows when the main income stream will start again.  Stranraer look to be a certain no at first glance, but you could argue they are gone anyway - will they really be worse off by accepting this?  Falkirk will obviously be against it, but do any of the clubs 2nd downwards realistically have anything to lose if we arent able to finish the season anyway?  

That said, it only needs 3 teams in a league to say no and its gone.  I doubt it will go through, but think some kind of half baked panicked reconstruction to save relegated clubs and appease some in promotion players will tip it over the line.

The SPFL appear hell bent on forcing some rough representation of the current league standings as the final picture, that will likely happen.  

 

[Guttenberg]

1 hour ago, Ned Nederlander said:

How about finishing this season whenever possible with NEXT season taking the hit - maybe just an 18 game mini season?

This. There seems to be little thought (within governing bodies) being given to the likelihood we'll be looking at another lockdown of some sorts somewhere between November and February which will ultimately interrupt next season. Being unable to finish this season is unfortunate. Scrapping it and then being unable to finish next season's will be a embarrassment.

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, CALDERON said:

 

Null and void is every bit as unfair as these proposals really - for every currently wronged club you appease you then wrong someone else.  

Only if you believe the team currently at the top of the league have achieved something. How can you be wronged when you haven't achieved anything? 

If you'd won the league and we couldn't complete the play offs and voided the season I could see how you've been wronged. Its a kick in the balls no doubt as you've every chance to win it, but so do Falkirk, or even Montrose, so declaring champions clearly "wrongs" more clubs than voiding it does. I suspect you'll see that in voting pattern too.

[Shadwell Dog]

14 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

Its not a fair proposal at all, in reality.  

However, the only fair option is finishing the season naturally with the current squads as they were when play was stopped.  That, especially at this level, just doesn't look like its going to be able to happen any time soon.  Certainly not without causing absolute mayhem for next season, and given we have the Euros next year, there will be pressure to get that finished in decent time.  I'd love to have some away days at some of my favourite grounds this summer, during a title race, but it just wont happen. Some people think finishing the season is in any way possible - but its not just about giving prize money early - clubs cost structures depend on what league they are in (Season tickets, attendances etc) and the longer you apply "lets see if we can finish it" the more that becomes unworkable.  

Null and void is every bit as unfair as these proposals really - for every currently wronged club you appease you then wrong someone else.  

I certainly don't want to see Raith Rovers win promotion this way, it takes all of the emotion and fun out of a game thats depends on those very things.  But even trying to be impartial, I'm really not sure what else can be done other than providing a bit more clarity on reconstruction other than some bullshit line.  I can kind of understand the rationale behind treating the Premiership differently.  There would at least be some appetite for an Old Firm game to be played behind closed doors for example, I imagine enough people would pay to watch that to make it vaguely worthwhile - there would be minuscule interest in these leagues though.  

It doesn't appear that null and void is on the table and it doesn't look like the SPFL see completing this season, at our level, as feasible in any way at all.  So my gut feeling will be that this proposal will not be voted through, but will see various bolt ons until such time as it does.  Is that the right thing to do? Who knows, but we have never ever seen anything like this in our lifetimes and all going well we never will again.  Its as unprecedented as you can get.

I think it will be a close vote though.  It's easy to assume that clubs in playoff positions across our leagues will vote against it, but if the season doesn't finish then they wont have a chance to go up anyway - and this option, as flawed as it is, provides clarity and more importantly some much needed cash.  Money talks, and it will be tempting for a lot of clubs to get some cash in the door at a time when nobody knows when the main income stream will start again.  Stranraer look to be a certain no at first glance, but you could argue they are gone anyway - will they really be worse off by accepting this?  Falkirk will obviously be against it, but do any of the clubs 2nd downwards realistically have anything to lose if we arent able to finish the season anyway?  

That said, it only needs 3 teams in a league to say no and its gone.  I doubt it will go through, but think some kind of half baked panicked reconstruction to save relegated clubs and appease some in promotion players will tip it over the line.

The SPFL appear hell bent on forcing some rough representation of the current league standings as the final picture, that will likely happen.  

 

I'd still pay out the prize money the now and then go back to the table in another month or so.  League season wasnt going to finish till 2nd of may anyway and then the playoffs were after that.Who knows what the situation will be then and it gives a month to try and thrash out a deal on reconstruction.  Theres not so much of a rush if clubs have at least got cash.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[fifer67]

How in the name of sporting integrity can you relegate Partick Thistle and at the same time not relegate Hearts. Lawyers are going to be very busy people. Look at the money Kelty have gambled on getting promotion to be told hang on Brechin wont be relegated. Any chairman that votes for that should hang his head in shame. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, fifer67 said:

How in the name of sporting integrity can you relegate Partick Thistle and at the same time not relegate Hearts. Lawyers are going to be very busy people. Look at the money Kelty have gambled on getting promotion to be told hang on Brechin wont be relegated. Any chairman that votes for that should hang his head in shame. 

Your assuming they have any.

[Shadwell Dog]

Just now, fifer67 said:

How in the name of sporting integrity can you relegate Partick Thistle and at the same time not relegate Hearts. Lawyers are going to be very busy people. Look at the money Kelty have gambled on getting promotion to be told hang on Brechin wont be relegated. Any chairman that votes for that should hang his head in shame. 

Agreed and they dont even get a vote. Let's relegate stranraer and partick but we'll maybe no relegate hearts and defo not brechin. Ludicrous.

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, fifer67 said:

How in the name of sporting integrity can you relegate Partick Thistle and at the same time not relegate Hearts. Lawyers are going to be very busy people. Look at the money Kelty have gambled on getting promotion to be told hang on Brechin wont be relegated. Any chairman that votes for that should hang his head in shame. 

Because the top flight is affected by UEFA and their competitons, and lower league sides want this cleared up before contracts expire, while also getting prize money in.

[Shadwell Dog]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Because the top flight is affected by UEFA and their competitons, and lower league sides want this cleared up before contracts expire, while also getting prize money in.

Looks like they want everyone to agree to stop the season now and then they'll make it up.as they go along after that on who goes up etc. They cant clarify anything till the top flight is sorted out.

[Clyde01]

Promote 2 and relegate none from every league. Why is that a worse idea than this pish? It also allows lowland and highland league champions to progress.

[fifer67]

5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Because the top flight is affected by UEFA and their competitons, and lower league sides want this cleared up before contracts expire, while also getting prize money in.

Don’t think Hearts will be needing a passport for European football

[CALDERON]

23 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Only if you believe the team currently at the top of the league have achieved something. How can you be wronged when you haven't achieved anything? 

If you'd won the league and we couldn't complete the play offs and voided the season I could see how you've been wronged. Its a kick in the balls no doubt as you've every chance to win it, but so do Falkirk, or even Montrose, so declaring champions clearly "wrongs" more clubs than voiding it does. I suspect you'll see that in voting pattern too.

I'd agree with that for this league, I dont think Raith Rovers or any team 1 point clear can claim they deserve or have earned promotion and realistically anyone down to Montrose could go on to win this league.

However if you look across the Scottish Leagues, all the other 3 have a clear leader and a far more than likely winner.  Voiding those leagues isnt really fair at all, far less so than calling them at over 3/4 complete - certainly with regards to league winners.  

If we benefit from this I'm under no illusions that this league is an outlier and we have been lucky.

However I also dont think its fair to dish out prize money based on current standings, then voiding the season and not recognising those standings in a sporting sense. 

There is only one perfect outcome, thats playing the games with the same squads some time soon.  That wont happen.  Any other outcome is going to piss somebody off.

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by CALDERON