flood Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, 500ClubCraig said: Given there has been no announcement, that I am aware of, that the Arbitration panel has been selected is it possible that no one on the list wants to make themselves available? And if so who would blame them! I’m not a lawyer, but i would quite happily be paid 10k a day to confirm hearts relegation 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 22 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said: Was 14-10-10-10 an earlier rejected one then? What was wrong with that? I got fed up with the whole thing for a while and switched off. I actually don't like 14-14-14 as much for the reasons you gave but was that the one the SPFL said had good support. I do still think it meets the criteria of not damaging clubs too much compared to just calling the leagues but there are compelling reasons some clubs might not go for it. Not so sure about the Prem clubs mind you. It became clear from the way a lot of owners have acted that no solution would be voted through so here we are. If hearts and PT win who knows what happens then. A 13 team top league? 14-14-14 was the first proposal, rejected. Then 14-10-10-10 but temporary then Rangers Colt Team idea then14-10-10-10 permenant was the final vote. Nobody took the hint that a 14 team top flight wasn't a goer at any stage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500ClubCraig Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, flood said: I’m not a lawyer, but i would quite happily be paid 10k a day to confirm hearts relegation are you forgetting to add Partick Thistle and Stranraer? What will be will be but this is about more than just one Club, although you wouldn’t think it reading the coverage of the last few months. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, 500ClubCraig said: are you forgetting to add Partick Thistle and Stranraer? What will be will be but this is about more than just one Club, although you wouldn’t think it reading the coverage of the last few months. You would think so, wouldn't you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 8GamesToGo Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 37 minutes ago, 500ClubCraig said: Given there has been no announcement, that I am aware of, that the Arbitration panel has been selected is it possible that no one on the list wants to make themselves available? And if so who would blame them! The longer it takes the more likelihood there is it ends up in the actual court. The SPFL had to commit at the hearing to doing this quickly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: You would think so, wouldn't you? Do they not realise that at no stage did Albion Rovers vote actually matter because the Premiership rejected everything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 8GamesToGo Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, itzdrk said: 14-14-14 was the first proposal, rejected. Then 14-10-10-10 but temporary then Rangers Colt Team idea then14-10-10-10 permenant was the final vote. Nobody took the hint that a 14 team top flight wasn't a goer at any stage. Maybe the clubs should have made their positions clear then instead of pretending they might go for it. They should have to publish their reasons for opposition or support for whatever proposals are put in front of them IMO. Not sure "fucking over Caley Thistle/Hearts/PT/Stranraer" would be a valid one at arbitration. Hopefully it's in the documents and meeting minutes and whatever our legal team get to see. Edited July 9, 2020 by 8GamesToGo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, welshbairn said: You would think so, wouldn't you? Craig and Rob sucking the Budge teat, regurgitating her less teams nonsense. With regards plastic pitches, do Hearts not have a hybrid pitch which has, cough, plastic in it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, 500ClubCraig said: Given there has been no announcement, that I am aware of, that the Arbitration panel has been selected is it possible that no one on the list wants to make themselves available? And if so who would blame them! Considering the conduct shown by (edit: some) Heart of Seethelothian fans up to now, I understand their reticence. A quick look on JKB exposes a litany of keyboard warriors who seem all too quick to dish out embarrassing childish threats. Edited July 10, 2020 by Ric 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akredz Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said: Maybe the clubs should have made their positions clear then instead of pretending they might go for it. They should have to publish their reasons for opposition or support for whatever proposals are put in front of them IMO. Not sure "fucking over Caley Thistle/Hearts/PT/Stranraer" would be a valid one at arbitration. Hopefully it's in the documents and meeting minutes and whatever our legal team get to see. Nonsense. Who is going to decide what's a valid reason for supporting or rejecting a vote? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said: Maybe the clubs should have made their positions clear then instead of pretending they might go for it. They should have to publish their reasons for opposition or support for whatever proposals are put in front of them IMO. Not sure "fucking over Caley Thistle/Hearts/PT/Stranraer" would be a valid one at arbitration. Hopefully it's in the documents and meeting minutes and whatever our legal team get to see. Majority of clubs put out statements every time they vote and this time round "Doesn't suit us" basically was what they all boiled down to, given they were being asked to look at a reconstruction proposal that involves each of their teams that's fine, not that the arbitration panel could do a thing about it if it was otherwise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Saw an article (Didn't get the link sorry) that the SPFL weren't going to be given the powers they wanted to make all decisions without a vote over the course of the next season. So if the SPFL lose (not for money) then they can't force through a reconstruction to cover their arses. That means it's fun time all round for those unaffected directly by these events in court no matter the outcome. My preference is still that Partick Thistle get relegated regardless of what happens to the other two. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyMirren Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 43 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said: Maybe the clubs should have made their positions clear then instead of pretending they might go for it. They should have to publish their reasons for opposition or support for whatever proposals are put in front of them IMO. Not sure "fucking over Caley Thistle/Hearts/PT/Stranraer" would be a valid one at arbitration. Hopefully it's in the documents and meeting minutes and whatever our legal team get to see. Clubs could have a multitude of reasons for decided to vote against the proposals for reconstruction, including... 1. The proposals presented were ill conceived, poorly presented, and provided little to no detail of the benefits or drawback associated. They were submitted purely for the purpose of keeping Hearts in the top flight and not for the greater benefit. 2. The redistribution of prize money would have resulted in many clubs being worse off. That might not have a massive impact on clubs like Hearts who have a multi millionaire willing to spunk his money up the wall bankrolling you, but to smaller provincial clubs that could make a massive difference to long term survival. 3. Maybe the didn’t see the much touted ‘sporting integrity’ in changing a whole league set up for the benefit of only a few clubs 4. Maybe they wanted reconstruction but a proper planned and thought out approach rather than just forcing it through quickly because Hearts and Thistle wanted it. Anyway, forcing any club to publicly acknowledge what way they voted full stop never mind justifying the reason for their vote could actually prove to be ‘prejudicial conduct’, and may force a club to disclose matters relating to their own business which they are under not obligation to disclose and could be harmful to their financial status. (Eg, a club states they voted against it because changes in prize money allocations may affect their ability to keep trading) Just a reminder, prejudicial conduct is exactly what your club are complaining about In their arbitration hearing...yet you’ve just said such action is totally fine? 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aim Here Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, akredz said: Nonsense. Who is going to decide what's a valid reason for supporting or rejecting a vote? There is a whole body of case law on deciding on the reasonableness of decisions . The standard relevant to this case seems to be something called the Wednesbury principle, where 'no reasonable person' could have voted the way that the clubs voted, and that seems to be what Hearts are claiming, multiple times, in their petition, with the phrase 'no reasonable member'. The notion seems to revolve around including relevant factors and excluding irrelevant ones for decisionmaking purposes. The idea that 30 club chairmen were mind-controlled by Neil Doncaster into each making a decision that "no reasonable person" could ever have made - and yet they still contend that decision is the right one, despite not being under his spell anymore - does strike me as verging on absurdity. Hearts are going to do some heavy lifting to overcome the law. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribzanelli Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 3 hours ago, 8GamesToGo said: FFS. Reconstruction wasn't just about the top league as two teams from the non leagues would come in. Aside from that it's still 10 teams for those leagues. I don't care about those details because it's not my job to and I don't think it's an issue and it wouldn't have been for your club Raith. Because for what I can remember (feel free to post it) the trickle down loss was minimal if anything. Raith would actually have a better chance of making it to the Premiership under reconstruction. First, two extra clubs would get all the extra money and big crowds from being in the top league. Second, clubs below like Dundee and Raith and everyone really would have a better chance of promotion into the top league this coming season at least. Third, prize money in this country does not make or break clubs' finances. No club should be budgeting using prize money and everyone would have the chance to get into the top group after the split. Clubs like Hamilton would also have less chance of getting relegated. Long term who knows because everyone might actually like it. If I was a Raith fan I'd have been right up for it. Put a good team together for a 27 game league and you'd have a real chance of getting up. There would be much less chance with Hearts down there. Same goes for Dundee and several other clubs. But apparently none of them wanted to do anything to help Caley Scottish football in a nutshell. So after almost 3 straight days of bemoaning the fact that clubs didn’t accept reconstruction it turns out that you don’t even know the simplest of things about what was proposed? Clubs should have voted for reconstruction on the basis that in the future they might stay the same or be re-reconstructed to bigger leagues or maybe be re-reconstructed to smaller leagues Truth is Ann Budge knew as much about the nitty gritty as you do, square root of f**k all, and so it should really come as no surprise that clubs took one look at half baked proposal after half baked proposal and went ‘nah, not for me’. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, ribzanelli said: So after almost 3 straight days of bemoaning the fact that clubs didn’t accept reconstruction it turns out that you don’t even know the simplest of things about what was proposed? Clubs should have voted for reconstruction on the basis that in the future they might stay the same or be re-reconstructed to bigger leagues or maybe be re-reconstructed to smaller leagues Truth is Ann Budge knew as much about the nitty gritty as you do, square root of f**k all, and so it should really come as no surprise that clubs took one look at half baked proposal after half baked proposal and went ‘nah, not for me’. Her half arsed reconstruction proposal was all about saving Hearts from relegation, it had no thought or consideration for other teams put into it, which is exactly why it had no chance of going through. Then she doubled down by pretending it was for the greater good of Scottish football, and anyone that didn't vote for it only had their own self interest at Heart (pun intended). The Hearts fans even believe this nonsense, they can't comprehend anything other than what Budge tells them, they are so blinkered that nothing else makes sense to them. Wont matter how many times these Hearts fans get told something different, it just wont sink in. I mean I've just read a post from one of them on here thinking Hearts are a well run club, how can you possibly have a chance of a sensible conversation with someone as deluded as that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgie greatness Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 47 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said: Her half arsed reconstruction proposal was all about saving Hearts from relegation, it had no thought or consideration for other teams put into it, which is exactly why it had no chance of going through. Then she doubled down by pretending it was for the greater good of Scottish football, and anyone that didn't vote for it only had their own self interest at Heart (pun intended). The Hearts fans even believe this nonsense, they can't comprehend anything other than what Budge tells them, they are so blinkered that nothing else makes sense to them. Wont matter how many times these Hearts fans get told something different, it just wont sink in. I mean I've just read a post from one of them on here thinking Hearts are a well run club, how can you possibly have a chance of a sensible conversation with someone as deluded as that. Lol says a livi fan who team has administrations like seasons. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacArab Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Zen Archer Esq. said: Craig and Rob sucking the Budge teat, regurgitating her less teams nonsense. With regards plastic pitches, do Hearts not have a hybrid pitch which has, cough, plastic in it? That level of arrogance from these Jambos is a factor in their getting into this mess in the first place. It echos Successful Businesswoman Ann Busge’s past comments as you say, and their bellend star striker coming out with similar yesterday about extinguishing these clubs from the leagues, does not help their cause either. It is Successful Businesswoman Ann Budge’s utter disregard for lower league football that lead to her final desperate reconstruction plan having absolutely no chance of even getting off the ground. Perhaps had she shown these clubs (who have the same voting rights as her own mighty Hearts), even a modicum of respect and picked up the phone to hem to ask them what a reconstruction plan might look like for them, as opposed to simply assuming that given Hearts’ peril, they would simply accept what she was trying to ram down their throats, she might have had a better idea of what would be more palatable to all, as regards reconstruction. You try telling any Elgin City or East Fife fan that Hearts are more important than their club, and they’ll tell you where to fucking stick it! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 See the Record is leading with the 'SPFL warning as courts overturn Belgian FA decision' line. The entire basis of the Belgian case was that their FA ended the top flight but bizarrely decided that promotion playoffs in the division below could continue. The clubs relegated of course asked why some football could still be played in the league below but not in the top flight. Had the playoffs still been arranged here, Hearts would have had a similar argument. But they didn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I know that these things take time, but given that Lord Clark mentioned the time constraints in this case, I’m amazed that the date for the Arbitration panel to start their deliberations has not yet been announced. The Premiership starts 3 weeks tomorrow for goodness sake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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