Green Day Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, SEETHING said: Nice diddy clubs in a precarious financial position you've got there. It'd be a shame if something...happened to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Coventry Saint said: There's something quite magnificently Scottish - and I mean this in the most complimentary way - about Championship clubs voting against something that will make their league easier to win, just to get it right round Falkirk, Thistle and Hearts. I think in Ayr’s case it’s simply because our chairman wants bigger leagues across the board rather than a rushed through proposal than only changes the top flight purely to benefit a few clubs. However keeping Hearts and Thistle relegated is a magnificent consequence of that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4mmy31 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 out of curiosity...... What would happen if clubs were to abstain from voting ? Could Budge take the SPFL and its member clubs to court if as the law states, an abstention is neither classed as a Yes or No vote ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, C4mmy31 said: out of curiosity...... What would happen if clubs were to abstain from voting ? Could Budge take the SPFL and its member clubs to court if as the law states, an abstention is neither classed as a Yes or No vote ? Remember back to the whole "did Doncaster influence Aberdeen?" nonsense, we learned then that clubs are only being asked to vote FOR resolutions - i.e. not voting or ignoring it are the same thing and only Yes votes have any relevance. If a resolution doesnt reach the required number of Yes votes as laid down in the rules and regs it fails. We keep hearing how the Premiership needs 11-1..............well thats not technically right, all it needs is 11 Yes votes because once it reaches that number it has passed. Difficult to see how Budge could take anyone to court on that as this isnt her resolution. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 3 hours ago, Tony Wonder said: It may well not go ahead. The Record are guessing though, no quotes at all. Doncaster has said there's enough indication of support to have a further look, if it was as obviously as unpalatable as the Record are suggesting then it wouldn't be worth the extra round of talks/votes. Also, the article can't even get the amount of games the bottom 8 would play correct. Quality journalism. Or, Doncaster has been stringing Hearts/Budge along, pretending that this reconstruction proposal had a chance, to waste another week, and leave Hearts no time to come up with anymore ways to get back into the Premiership before it's past the point of no return. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Coventry Saint said: As I pointed out several pages ago - though it was lost in a sea of premature smugness - there's no way County and Hibs are voting to promote their rivals. And I still hope St Mirren will do the right thing. County and Hibs (both of whom have spent time in the Championship recently) would be voting: 1) To have much less chance of being relegated than they have now. 2) To be more likely to come straight back up if they were to be relegated. 3) To have derby matches next season. From a business point of view it's a no-brainer. Same for St Mirren. St Mirren and Accies would be unwise to vote against a 14-team league. It would be good for them. Unless you think greater likelihood of spending more time in the top flight is a bad thing. Likewise, clubs in the Championship with their eye on promotion would perhaps do well to vote to keep Hearts out the way for next season and to ensure that in the coming years some of the 'big at that level' clubs are kept in the Premiership, making that one automatic slot plus one play-off slot more attainable. They benefit in the same way. A 14-team top flight with a second tier having one up with one in a play-off is a great deal for Premiership clubs for whom relegation is a regular concern. Harder to go down, easier to come up. That's exactly what these clubs want. If the boards of Hibs, or St Mirren, or Ross County, or St Johnstone, or Accies were to vote against this, their supporters would be within their rights to send angry letters asking the board to justify voting against something that is clearly of medium and long-term benefit to their club. Relegation is a concern for all clubs outwith the OF. The current league table is not forever. Hearts had brushes with relegation in the mid-90s and again in 99 before going down in 2014. Hibs went down in 98 and 2014. Aberdeen had a close call in 1995 and were saved by stadium regulations in 2000 before being second-last again in 2004. Dundee United went down in the 90s and again recently. Kilmarnock have had close calls. Motherwell have had close calls. St Johnstone have gone between the divisions. All these clubs know that in time that will come round again. Running a business isn't just about what's happening this year. Edited June 12, 2020 by JTS98 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 2 hours ago, JTS98 said: County and Hibs (both of whom have spent time in the Championship recently) would be voting: 1) To have much less chance of being relegated than they have now. 2) To be more likely to come straight back up if they were to be relegated. 3) To have derby matches next season. From a business point of view it's a no-brainer. Same for St Mirren. St Mirren and Accies would be unwise to vote against a 14-team league. It would be good for them. Unless you think greater likelihood of spending more time in the top flight is a bad thing. Likewise, clubs in the Championship with their eye on promotion would perhaps do well to vote to keep Hearts out the way for next season and to ensure that in the coming years some of the 'big at that level' clubs are kept in the Premiership, making that one automatic slot plus one play-off slot more attainable. They benefit in the same way. A 14-team top flight with a second tier having one up with one in a play-off is a great deal for Premiership clubs for whom relegation is a regular concern. Harder to go down, easier to come up. That's exactly what these clubs want. If the boards of Hibs, or St Mirren, or Ross County, or St Johnstone, or Accies were to vote against this, their supporters would be within their rights to send angry letters asking the board to justify voting against something that is clearly of medium and long-term benefit to their club. Relegation is a concern for all clubs outwith the OF. The current league table is not forever. Hearts had brushes with relegation in the mid-90s and again in 99 before going down in 2014. Hibs went down in 98 and 2014. Aberdeen had a close call in 1995 and were saved by stadium regulations in 2000 before being second-last again in 2004. Dundee United went down in the 90s and again recently. Kilmarnock have had close calls. Motherwell have had close calls. St Johnstone have gone between the divisions. All these clubs know that in time that will come round again. Running a business isn't just about what's happening this year. Are you still greeting about this pish? Take a break pal. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, tree house tam said: Are you still greeting about this pish? Take a break pal. People are having a civilised discussion on the topic of the thread. Join in or don't join in. Edited June 12, 2020 by JTS98 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 20 minutes ago, JTS98 said: People are having a civilised discussion on the topic of the thread. Join in or don't join in. You do realise that your long, but reasonable posts just make it all the funnier that Hearts are this season's patsy. Budge, with some very able help on here, has managed to turn an issue that normally has 100% support into a majority for opposition. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: You do realise that your long, but reasonable posts just make it all the funnier that Hearts are this season's patsy. Budge, with some very able help on here, has managed to turn an issue that normally has 100% support into a majority for opposition. I don't really see how that's relevant to a discussion of the relative merits of a league of 12, 14, or 16. We either have a thread about it or we don't. You've got a choice which posts you read and bother with and which you don't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, JTS98 said: I don't really see how that's relevant to a discussion of the relative merits of a league of 12, 14, or 16. We either have a thread about it or we don't. You've got a choice which posts you read and bother with and which you don't. Most people on here know the merits. I'm just saying you won't persuade anybody. As @Coventry Saintsaid there's not much logic being applied. Hearts managed to make a bad situation worse and have lost all the goodwill they had and a lot of people are enjoying the reasonable and the unreasonable attempts to resolve their position. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Most people on here know the merits. I'm just saying you won't persuade anybody. As @Coventry Saintsaid there's not much logic being applied. Hearts managed to make a bad situation worse and have lost all the goodwill they had and a lot of people are enjoying the reasonable and the unreasonable attempts to resolve their position. I think you're familiar enough with this site to know that nobody ever convinces anybody of anything. I'd dispute the idea that there was a well of goodwill that Hearts have somehow pished away. I think that's revisionism coming from people who don't like Budge. There were no moves from other Premiership clubs to indicate they'd lift a finger to help Hearts from day one. It's football. Of course people are enjoying Hearts' discomfort. The amusing thing about people criticising Hearts and going on and on about how this wouldn't be discussed if a smaller club were in our position (and it would) is that if a smaller club were in our position, those same people would be demanding that they be kept up. That's fitba. Applying the logic of your post I've just quoted, nobody would ever post anything on here. Edited June 12, 2020 by JTS98 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theauldyin Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 7 hours ago, Busta Nut said: Just get hearts to utter f**k. This is a fucking joke now. IF there is reconstruction I am all for it, ONLY if hearts are still relegated. this 100% 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McQueen Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Why dont we just keep Dundee United down, I mean they didnt actually win promotion. Thats my prediction for Budges next move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zing. Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 3 hours ago, JTS98 said: County and Hibs (both of whom have spent time in the Championship recently) would be voting: 1) To have much less chance of being relegated than they have now. 2) To be more likely to come straight back up if they were to be relegated. 3) To have derby matches next season. From a business point of view it's a no-brainer. Same for St Mirren. St Mirren and Accies would be unwise to vote against a 14-team league. It would be good for them. Unless you think greater likelihood of spending more time in the top flight is a bad thing. Likewise, clubs in the Championship with their eye on promotion would perhaps do well to vote to keep Hearts out the way for next season and to ensure that in the coming years some of the 'big at that level' clubs are kept in the Premiership, making that one automatic slot plus one play-off slot more attainable. They benefit in the same way. A 14-team top flight with a second tier having one up with one in a play-off is a great deal for Premiership clubs for whom relegation is a regular concern. Harder to go down, easier to come up. That's exactly what these clubs want. If the boards of Hibs, or St Mirren, or Ross County, or St Johnstone, or Accies were to vote against this, their supporters would be within their rights to send angry letters asking the board to justify voting against something that is clearly of medium and long-term benefit to their club. Relegation is a concern for all clubs outwith the OF. The current league table is not forever. Hearts had brushes with relegation in the mid-90s and again in 99 before going down in 2014. Hibs went down in 98 and 2014. Aberdeen had a close call in 1995 and were saved by stadium regulations in 2000 before being second-last again in 2004. Dundee United went down in the 90s and again recently. Kilmarnock have had close calls. Motherwell have had close calls. St Johnstone have gone between the divisions. All these clubs know that in time that will come round again. Running a business isn't just about what's happening this year. I actually agree with the points made here. It’s a no brainer for the regular bottom six sides in terms of the threat of relegation. The points attributed to McGregor also have some mileage in terms of walkups, season ticket sales and the threat of being stuck with a shit load of meaningless fixtures against the worst sides in the division. Hard sell for a club like Hibs who will be regularly around 6th/7th. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 4 hours ago, C4mmy31 said: out of curiosity...... What would happen if clubs were to abstain from voting ? Could Budge take the SPFL and its member clubs to court if as the law states, an abstention is neither classed as a Yes or No vote ? I doubt we'll ever find out, as all 42 clubs will he voting for this proposal. By Monday itll be done. Hearts have such a cast iron legal case no club could afford to annoy them. It's either reconstruct, or every club goes bust and the SPFL gets sued for millions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, JTS98 said: If the boards of Hibs, or St Mirren, or Ross County, or St Johnstone, or Accies were to vote against this, their supporters would be within their rights to send angry letters asking the board to justify voting against something that is clearly of medium and long-term benefit to their club. From a St Johnstone point if view, I'd fully understand it. This season, if you split after 26 games, we'd be, at least, 12pts clear of relegation places (that's the distance between us and 12th after 26 rounds this season). We had an incredible record against bottom half sides. We'd then be looking at 14 games where there was no threat of relegation at all. So what's there for St Johnstone to play for in that situation? Position in the bottom half? So season ticket holders would be getting 13 games before the split, and potentially 7 dead rubbers (which wouldve happened to St Johnstone fans this season). Whereas its 16/17 games;2/3 dead rubbers in the current set up. Why would they pay full price the next season? I suspect the majority would buy half season tickets as your season could be over by the first week in February anyway. Relegation is bad, but forcing away season ticket holders is infinitely worse for clubs with small supports. Edited June 12, 2020 by RandomGuy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staggie52 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 3 hours ago, JTS98 said: County and Hibs (both of whom have spent time in the Championship recently) would be voting: 1) To have much less chance of being relegated than they have now. 2) To be more likely to come straight back up if they were to be relegated. 3) To have derby matches next season. From a business point of view it's a no-brainer. Same for St Mirren. St Mirren and Accies would be unwise to vote against a 14-team league. It would be good for them. Unless you think greater likelihood of spending more time in the top flight is a bad thing. Likewise, clubs in the Championship with their eye on promotion would perhaps do well to vote to keep Hearts out the way for next season and to ensure that in the coming years some of the 'big at that level' clubs are kept in the Premiership, making that one automatic slot plus one play-off slot more attainable. They benefit in the same way. A 14-team top flight with a second tier having one up with one in a play-off is a great deal for Premiership clubs for whom relegation is a regular concern. Harder to go down, easier to come up. That's exactly what these clubs want. If the boards of Hibs, or St Mirren, or Ross County, or St Johnstone, or Accies were to vote against this, their supporters would be within their rights to send angry letters asking the board to justify voting against something that is clearly of medium and long-term benefit to their club. Relegation is a concern for all clubs outwith the OF. The current league table is not forever. Hearts had brushes with relegation in the mid-90s and again in 99 before going down in 2014. Hibs went down in 98 and 2014. Aberdeen had a close call in 1995 and were saved by stadium regulations in 2000 before being second-last again in 2004. Dundee United went down in the 90s and again recently. Kilmarnock have had close calls. Motherwell have had close calls. St Johnstone have gone between the divisions. All these clubs know that in time that will come round again. Running a business isn't just about what's happening this year. You overestimate the impact of a Highland derby. They give us near capacity crowds but so do games against Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen. Depending on the split, having an extra derby, wouldn’t compensate for losing two of the above home games. When you consider tv income for 2 of the 3, it’s unlikely that a derby would make much difference financially. Would it make staying up easier, maybe, but over the next few years it’s still likely to be the same teams at the bottom. Having a well run Hearts and Dundee United, might not change the bottom 3 or 4 much. The bigger league could mean winning a lower proportion of games and we clearly suffer in attendance terms when that happens. i don’t know Mcgregor’s plans but I don’t think finance would be the deciding factor in the way you imply. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Another embarrassing come down for the Hearts lads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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