Walking Down the Beechwood Road mk 2

[Plantar fasciitis]

2 hours ago, Ben10 said:

Tucker should and wul get tae Christmas. 
Cumnock is a big geme for obvious reasons but the pressure is oan this weekend. I think we beat Medda 5 times 2 year back. We canny afford tae fall to for behun. We’ve signed 4 o that team as well. Need a win. 
 

Just about got the gist of that! 
 

Massive game for both and the added interest with so many Meadow players going there in the last season. 
I do have a gut feeling that Meadow will shade this one. Just based on the recent change in management which normally gives teams a lift, the recent good results and the recent poor form of Talbot . 
I'm sure so many players leaving to go to Bot will also be a form of motivation for the meadow players also 

[Shanner]

Imagine Talbot v Medda being a relegation six pointer.

[Plantar fasciitis]

Maybe the fact we are should be realisation enough for the fans , but more importantly the committees that the set up has changed dramatically in last few years with the introduction of WOSFL and if they don't change the budgets etc they will get left behind 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Plantar fasciitis

[Ben10]

1 hour ago, Plantar fasciitis said:

Maybe the fact we are should be realisation enough for the fans , but more importantly the committees that the set up has changed dramatically in last few years with the introduction of WOSFL and if they don't change the budgets etc they will get left behind 

I don’t think it’s got tae dae wi budgets. Beith won’t be a top 5 budget in the league. 
Granted the pull talbot had fir players his diminished due to money being flung about and become a bigger part of the signing talks but I’d imagine Talbot spend mare than Beith. Wan thing fir sure there’s no as many gid players to chose fae. We’re suffering in Ayrshire from a drap in standard fae the amateur geme! It’s hud a knock on affect if u ask me. 
 

You’ll huv Darvel Pollok Cumnock St Cadocs Talbot as yer tap 5 spenders in the league. Ower 110k

A middle bracket wi 80-100k Beith Hurlford Medda Gartcairn Glens Troon 

Then below Largs Rob Roy Arthurlie and a few others but no be many below 70-80k

Thats pure guesswork btw but no be for away based on some of the conversations I’ve hud. 

[Ben10]

2 hours ago, Shanner said:

Imagine Talbot v Medda being a relegation six pointer.

First time in a while the Glesga teams are becoming the dominant force! Medda Cumnock Gkens an Talbot aw doon the bottom. 

[fieldsofdreams]

6 minutes ago, Ben10 said:

First time in a while the Glesga teams are becoming the dominant force! Medda Cumnock Gkens an Talbot aw doon the bottom. 

Long way to go, I would suspect 3 of top 4 being Ayrshire sides. 

[Ben10]

19 minutes ago, fieldsofdreams said:

Long way to go, I would suspect 3 of top 4 being Ayrshire sides. 

Beith Darvel?? Darvel seem in disarry but goan oot the cups could help them, wulnae help their bank account! 
 

hankies, Pollok, st cashdocs probably next imo

[fieldsofdreams]

30 minutes ago, Ben10 said:

Beith Darvel?? Darvel seem in disarry but goan oot the cups could help them, wulnae help their bank account! 
 

hankies, Pollok, st cashdocs probably next imo

St Cadocs aren't a great side, good indivdual players however a team of boys that haven't won or competed for much so no real winners in squad. 

Clydebank in my opinion will come third. My predictions Beith by country mile, then darvel then clydebank and hurlford. 

[tyson1909]

6 hours ago, Ben10 said:

Tucker should and wul get tae Christmas. 
Cumnock is a big geme for obvious reasons but the pressure is oan this weekend. I think we beat Medda 5 times 2 year back. We canny afford tae fall to for behun. We’ve signed 4 o that team as well. Need a win. 
 

Oh to be a fly on the wall at the club just now. They'll know fans are unhappy, they'll be unhappy too. There's obviously got to be tact used in this situation we find ourselves in. Things clearly arent good enough at this time, but i dont think a kick up the arse is the right way to go, they'll be feeling enough pressure as it is. Does putting a deadline/ultimatum help? I'm not so sure. We're in the midst of a re-build which is fair enough but its not a 'lingering about mid table and progress from there' rebuild. Its a 'lets make sure we dont get relegated' so we can rebuild. Tucker usually doesnt like to spend, which maybe a good thing because it could mean he has more there in the war chest than he might have had otherwise. Bring in some experience to help the young boys thats been brought in, they need it.

 

[KirkieRR]

The truth is the rest of us are enjoying looking at the table and seeing Talbot at the bottom, seeing them roll out of cups early doors etc.

 

But none of us, except for the seriously deluded, think it's going to last.

[BC63]

8 hours ago, Ben10 said:

Tucker should and wul get tae Christmas. 
Cumnock is a big geme for obvious reasons but the pressure is oan this weekend. I think we beat Medda 5 times 2 year back. We canny afford tae fall to for behun. We’ve signed 4 o that team as well. Need a win. 
 

Tucker will get as long as it takes to turn things around. 

[tyson1909]

1 hour ago, BC63 said:

Tucker will get as long as it takes to turn things around. 

I hope that is the case, he's obviously needing a little encouragement to bring in what you might call marquis signings (for want of a better term) to help the younger boys thats came in this year. Think even just a couple could make all the difference. It may not get us back to near the top but its a step in right direction and avoid a relegation battle at the end of the season. 

[tyson1909]

2 hours ago, KirkieRR said:

The truth is the rest of us are enjoying looking at the table and seeing Talbot at the bottom, seeing them roll out of cups early doors etc.

 

But none of us, except for the seriously deluded, think it's going to last.

I reckon a lot of people will think exactly the same as your self. 

Certainly makes you appreciate the better times more. A little dose of reality

[Rugbyroader]

Mate of mine who comes occasionally to Talbot games made an observation earlier this season. Tucker didn’t seem as engaged at the sideline as he has previously. McLuckie and White more involved. Did wonder if White was being groomed as successsor. White was a good player but what does he offer as a coach? Tucker seemed more involved at Troon away than he had been previously this season.

Perhaps he’s lost his desire and is simply fed up with football in general. He is in his late 50’s. 

If he wants to continue he should be given  time. He deserves that. There is quality in sone of the players he has signed. They are just a bit short of being ready but most have potential. The ones that aren’t up to it will be moved on. We do need some more experience to help the youngsters and manage games. 

[Fabi]

Been reading this thread with interest and the split views of the Talbot fans regarding Tucker just shows you what an amazing game this is as everyone sees it totally different! 
personally having played against Tucker as a player and also when he went into the dug out at Talbot the guy has nothing but massive respect from me. This is due to the way he holds himself at all times, the trophies he's won and despite the respect he rightly commands , the humbling and genuinely friendly nature of the guy whenever in his company before/after games. 
He has got to be the most successful manager at our level in modern times and for that alone he should be given the time to turn round , what is no doubt the worst start for a Talbot team in all my time. 
What I would say is the Talbot fans do have a right to be worried. I was part of the 2004 Buffs team that had won the Super league the season before but due to a manager change at the start of the season, Paul Wright taking over from Mark Shanks who went to Ayr,  a number of our experienced players either left or were pushed out the door. 
Paul Wright went down the youth route , kids from Hamilton pro youth, and also signed players who had no top league experience. In their own right he signed boys who no doubt had decent attributes, especially the boys from Hamilton, but at that point they just didn't have the experience or the temperament to deal with the pressures of being the team everyone wanted to beat and ultimately we ended up relegated. 
Throughout the first half of that season we kept looking at the table saying we were too good to go down and thinking "right if we win they next few games....."

The rest is history! 
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the position Talbot find themselves in just now there is no reason why the can't go down, and having experienced players who have been there and done it can make all the difference when dragged into a relegation dog fight , which Talbot are most definitely in just now. 
But I have no doubt Tucker and Alan don't need me, or anyone else telling them this, they will be fully aware the players brought in this season to take over from the old guard haven't cut it yet and I've no doubt they will be working their balls off in the background to bring  others in and bring those already signed up to scratch . 

I'm sure he will be given the time to turn it round as a change of manager doesn't guarantee a change in results. 
 

on an aside , one of those pro youths at the buffs , who a lot were shouting about weren't good enough is Ryan McGregor , who ended up having a fantastic junior career and has just signed with Pollok again! 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Fabi

[funky monkey]

Great post Fabi.

As a Buffs fan, I recollect that season very well. It took a long time for the club to recover from that.

Buffs relegation last season was similar. A change of manager didn't work, with a huge turnover in players, too much tinkering.

Having said that, due to cup ties we had loads of games to turn things around. Nobody at the club expected anything other than that. We changed manager again after a series of really poor results, shipping goals for fun. Yet we still believed we would stay up.

Losing becomes a habit, a hard habit to break. Whilst it's early doors for Talbot, the fear factor that often helped Talbot get results is long gone. Something will need to improve or change at Beechwood because even the biggest clubs can get relegated from a tough division where anybody can beat anybody on their day.

The Tucker Sloan conundrum is an interesting one. Undoubtedly the most successful manager at our level of football. I'm sure he'll not need to be pushed, he'll realise when is the right time to go.

[jimbaxters]

2 hours ago, Rugbyroader said:

Mate of mine who comes occasionally to Talbot games made an observation earlier this season. Tucker didn’t seem as engaged at the sideline as he has previously. McLuckie and White more involved. Did wonder if White was being groomed as successsor. White was a good player but what does he offer as a coach? Tucker seemed more involved at Troon away than he had been previously this season.

Perhaps he’s lost his desire and is simply fed up with football in general. He is in his late 50’s. 

If he wants to continue he should be given  time. He deserves that. There is quality in sone of the players he has signed. They are just a bit short of being ready but most have potential. The ones that aren’t up to it will be moved on. We do need some more experience to help the youngsters and manage games. 

None of that sounds unreasonable. I agree that this is how it will go down at some point in the future. Personally just can't see Talbot going down the route of advertising for the job. This is going to sound like a dig but it's not meant to be; look at Cumnock and Meadow and how many journeymen managers they have gone through. Would hate to see Talbot do the same.

[BANKIEBILL]

19 hours ago, Ben10 said:

I don’t think it’s got tae dae wi budgets. Beith won’t be a top 5 budget in the league. 
Granted the pull talbot had fir players his diminished due to money being flung about and become a bigger part of the signing talks but I’d imagine Talbot spend mare than Beith. Wan thing fir sure there’s no as many gid players to chose fae. We’re suffering in Ayrshire from a drap in standard fae the amateur geme! It’s hud a knock on affect if u ask me. 
 

You’ll huv Darvel Pollok Cumnock St Cadocs Talbot as yer tap 5 spenders in the league. Ower 110k

A middle bracket wi 80-100k Beith Hurlford Medda Gartcairn Glens Troon 

Then below Largs Rob Roy Arthurlie and a few others but no be many below 70-80k

Thats pure guesswork btw but no be for away based on some of the conversations I’ve hud. 

You may well be correct with the bracketing of the clubs but in terms of actual budgets - Darvel were paying up to £20k for transfers and several hundred quid a week in wages / bonuses etc ... that doesnt point to overall spending to be in the same bracket as the others there. You do say over £110k but some of those clubs will be way over that. It's the way that those resources are used though.  Darvel or Pollok fans - even Talbot since the reorganisation of the leagues - do they feel they've had a real return for money spent ?? Sure Beith fans do ... and they're not quite as poor relations as they'd have people think. In terms of budgets - Moff at Clydebank has done very well despite us not winning anything yet. On an upwards trajectory though. It will get harder and harder - as clubs come up from below with big budgets ( Drum, Johnstone Burgh etc ) - forcing clubs to try and find more to push the boat a bit or accept they cannot compete. For a club like Talbot who don't rely on a money man - going out the Scottish so early will be a bit of a blow. I do think that participation in so many cups can be a distraction - but not the Scottish. 

[jimbaxters]

2 hours ago, Fabi said:

Been reading this thread with interest and the split views of the Talbot fans regarding Tucker just shows you what an amazing game this is as everyone sees it totally different! 
personally having played against Tucker as a player and also when he went into the dug out at Talbot the guy has nothing but massive respect from me. This is due to the way he holds himself at all times, the trophies he's won and despite the respect he rightly commands , the humbling and genuinely friendly nature of the guy whenever in his company before/after games. 
He has got to be the most successful manager at our level in modern times and for that alone he should be given the time to turn round , what is no doubt the worst start for a Talbot team in all my time. 
What I would say is the Talbot fans do have a right to be worried. I was part of the 2004 Buffs team that had won the Super league the season before but due to a manager change at the start of the season, Paul Wright taking over from Mark Shanks who went to Ayr,  a number of our experienced players either left or were pushed out the door. 
Paul Wright went down the youth route , kids from Hamilton pro youth, and also signed players who had no top league experience. In their own right he signed boys who no doubt had decent attributes, especially the boys from Hamilton, but at that point they just didn't have the experience or the temperament to deal with the pressures of being the team everyone wanted to beat and ultimately we ended up relegated. 
Throughout the first half of that season we kept looking at the table saying we were too good to go down and thinking "right if we win they next few games....."

The rest is history! 
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the position Talbot find themselves in just now there is no reason why the can't go down, and having experienced players who have been there and done it can make all the difference when dragged into a relegation dog fight , which Talbot are most definitely in just now. 
But I have no doubt Tucker and Alan don't need me, or anyone else telling them this, they will be fully aware the players brought in this season to take over from the old guard haven't cut it yet and I've no doubt they will be working their balls off in the background to bring  others in and bring those already signed up to scratch . 

I'm sure he will be given the time to turn it round as a change of manager doesn't guarantee a change in results. 
 

on an aside , one of those pro youths at the buffs , who a lot were shouting about weren't good enough is Ryan McGregor , who ended up having a fantastic junior career and has just signed with Pollok again! 

Big up this.

Don't know Tucker personally but the man is a hero of mine. Not because of the success but simply by the way he projects himself. After every cup final on telly he seems to have to be chased to speak on screen and is usually holding one of his grand weans. Contrast him with some current examples of "if he was chocolate he'd eat himself" managers at our level. 

As you say, none of this means that the current situation doesn't need to be attended to but the guy deserves some respect in the process.

[funky monkey]

Interesting re budgets.

Clearly, Darvel changed the landscape for forever. Buffs partially to blame by selling David Syme to Darvel for £12K to up the ante.

The other factor not mentioned as much is SFA licencing. There's been a huge cost to the likes of Talbot, Meadow, Buffs for this. Costs that have an impact upon overall budgeting and indeed upon playing budget.

Chris Strain has done a fantastic job at Beith, I was really disappointed when Buffs parted ways with him. However, he's achieved success without the costs of SFA licencing hanging over his club. A coincidence perhaps? Who knows.

Edited September 27, 2023 by funky monkey