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Geopolitics in the 2020s.


dorlomin

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7 hours ago, doulikefish said:

Could be the end of Erdogan today...could be interesting 

Careful now, you’ll get our resident contrarian experts on everything piling on to say how great a guy Erdogan is.  

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8 minutes ago, RuMoore said:

What's a good TLDR of both candidates so I can decide which one is the good guy and which one is the w**k?

From about 10 minutes of research, Kilicdaroglu sounds like new Labour/ Lib Dem at best, Ogan is BNP and Erdogan is a w**k (but that’s been obvious for years). Doesn’t sound like there are any good guys. 

Edited by MazzyStar
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State news has Erdogan ahead whilst private news has it neck and neck so a mixed picture with just over half of the votes counted so far 

Forgot to mention ( if google translate is correct) at this stage last election Erdogan was sitting at about 67% and ended up at just over 51% so even the state news which currently has him at 51% it's squeaky bum time for him 

Edited by doulikefish
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I think Erdogan started off ok but he's been there too long and the power's gone to his head, made some catastrophic economic decisions and made it easy for builders to ignore regs which has come home to roost big style with the earthquake. There are a couple of documentaries on BBC iplayer on him, only watched the first one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p0d9cf3b/turkey-empire-of-erdogan

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10 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

State news has Erdogan ahead whilst private news has it neck and neck so a mixed picture with just over half of the votes counted so far 

It's supposed to be illegal to reveal counts before 9pm, should get exit polls then if anyone's doing one.

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4 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

That's Turkish time 😉

Oops. :lol:

P.S. They ignored their own rules apparently and released them early, though it's 9.30 in Ankara now anyway.

image.thumb.png.89484aba4b4ab7300a0d2d17a2049ec2.png

Edited by welshbairn
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2 hours ago, MazzyStar said:

From about 10 minutes of research, Kilicdaroglu sounds like new Labour/ Lib Dem at best, Ogan is BNP and Erdogan is a w**k (but that’s been obvious for years). Doesn’t sound like there are any good guys. 

Indeed. There is no political left in Turkey. I listened to this last night and it goes through the history on why that is. Owing to its geographic location so close to the Soviet Union, Turkey were subject to the strongest Operation Gladio initiatives of all. That created the path for Turkey to continue on as a hyper-chauvinist, barely democratic, perpetual IMF debtor.

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2 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

Only affects Turkish language Twitter which none of us will be following but noteworthy. Musk himself replied to this tweet.

This one? I wonder what voices they've cancelled...

P.S.

 

 

Edited by welshbairn
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3 hours ago, welshbairn said:

I think Erdogan started off ok but he's been there too long and the power's gone to his head, made some catastrophic economic decisions and made it easy for builders to ignore regs which has come home to roost big style with the earthquake. There are a couple of documentaries on BBC iplayer on him, only watched the first one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p0d9cf3b/turkey-empire-of-erdogan

I've just watched those two episodes and those Boris Johnson-esq water cannons made me shudder.

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Erdoğan's last election victory in 2018 was obtained only with the support of MHP, an openly fascist political party in Turkey. That party's founder, Alperslan Türkeş, was trained by USA then installed as head of NATO operations in Turkey. MHP have a paramilitary, the Gray Wolves, which are the biggest fascist organisation in Germany due to their popularity among Turk-Germans. Germany isn't allowed to ban them due to Turkey's status as USA's favoured child within NATO. In neighbouring Austria, not in NATO, the Gray Wolves are banned. Erdoğan gets a great deal of votes from Gray Wolves types in Germany, as any Turkish passport holder is allowed to vote in Turkish elections, even the German grandchildren of Turkish emigrants. It's notable that throughout NATO Europe, all Kurdish or left wing Turkish organisations are banned. 

Something frustrating in recent years was when anti-China liberals lionised Mesut Özil for his purported solidarity with oppressed Uyghurs in Xinjiang. These folk didn't realise that rather than human rights concern being Özil's primary motive, turanism was. A central tenet to Turkish fascism is turanism (pan-Turkism), created by the afore-mentioned Alperslan Türkeş. The turanists consider Uyghurs of Turkic blood and Xinjiang ("East Turkestan") as Turkish soil. Not that it matters but this is pseudo-historical and pseudo-scientific. "Turkishness" was only passed on by a colonial elite which then influenced culture. Contemporary Turks are biologically the same as Greeks and Armenians. Anyway, Erdoğan was best man at Özil's wedding. 

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1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

This one? I wonder what voices they've cancelled...

P.S.

 

 

No idea what exactly was being censored. Personally, I'm less interested in the argument Matt Binder is advancing there, how much or how little Musk is for free speech. I'm just interested in whether the Turkish election is effected by media censorship within Turkey. I know Turkey ranks shockingly low for media "freedom" relative to its high economic level.

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