Geopolitics in the 2020s.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

More 'clashes' in another 'incident' I see.

[StellarHibee]

An Israeli soldier with a distinctly weegie accent. Who wants to take a punt on which football club he's a fan of? 
 

 

[Suspect Device]

8 hours ago, StellarHibee said:

An Israeli soldier with a distinctly weegie accent. Who wants to take a punt on which football club he's a fan of? 
 

 

 

 

Could be any team.

 

[Guest]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-buy-25-more-f-35-stealth-jets-3-bln-deal-2023-07-02/

Israel rewarded for bombing a refugee camp with 25 new fighter jets. Americans having their tax contributions wasted on it. 

[Billy Jean King]

16 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-buy-25-more-f-35-stealth-jets-3-bln-deal-2023-07-02/

Israel rewarded for bombing a refugee camp with 25 new fighter jets. Americans having their tax contributions wasted on it. 

Sounds to me that the Yanks tax contributions will be going straight back to the pockets of Yank weapons manufacturers, it's a bizarre set up where you fund another country's defence budget for them to hand that money back to US companies. 

[Granny Danger]

Meanwhile, killing a man with a mental age of 8 seems to be OK…

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/israeli-court-acquits-officer-over-killing-of-autistic-palestinian-man-iyad-halak

[ClydeTon]

Israeli troops practically have Carte Blanche now. As far as their apartheid regime will care, Palestinians align with an illegitimate state that in itself is helped up by "terrorist" militants.

So, to them, that murder - and all of the others - are OK. As long as the yanks back them up, it a case of "why should we care?".

Basically, f**k both of them.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

Sounds to me that the Yanks tax contributions will be going straight back to the pockets of Yank weapons manufacturers, it's a bizarre set up where you fund another country's defence budget for them to hand that money back to US companies. 

Sure, it's a way of shovelling public money into private hands, the shareholders of Lockheed Martin in this case. 

[StellarHibee]

 

[Bully Wee Villa]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/07/dutch-pm-set-to-resign-after-failing-to-reach-immigration-agreement

The whole western world is obsessed with trying to show off who can hate immigrants the most. Depressing. Hopefully this doesn't result in the Dutch taking a further lurch to the right but it probably will.

Didn't the Dutch used to be cool, hippy, Liberal types?

Edited July 7, 2023 by Bully Wee Villa

[Turkmenbashi]

9 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/07/dutch-pm-set-to-resign-after-failing-to-reach-immigration-agreement

Didn't the Dutch used to be cool, hippy, Liberal types?

 Nope not really. That is an absolute myth. People's views are probably skewed because of Amsterdam

[ClydeTon]

The Dutch weren't exactly trying to bar the door shut and say "you aren't European? Well then, see you later!" - they were trying to find a way to limit it whilst also being human about it.

Open Borders immigration doesn't work. The only reason it has worked in Europe is because most European Cultures are Christian or, now, Athiest, whereas most Immigrants are Muslim. Europe's cultures also find similarities in little clusters - the south with their languages, The Benelux (mainly Belgium), the Baltic States, and so forth. It's uniting people that can get along.

Unfortunately, some people don't like people with a different colour of skin, or religion. The infrastructure of a nation doesn't like a rapid influx of people, for much more justified reasons.

So I think the Dutch, and the other Governments, have been reasonable - and yes, I realise the Dutch Coalition had a Christian party in it. Despite whatever motivation they may have had, they didn't just say "whites only", did they?

(No, they didn't)

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ClydeTon said:

Open Borders immigration doesn't work. The only reason it has worked in Europe is because most European Cultures are Christian or, now, Athiest, whereas most Immigrants are Muslim.

Mirpuri Pakistanis moved to north and central England in the 1960s. In Pakistan, they were entirely dependent on subsistence farming yet had all their agricultural land flooded when an American consortium built the Mangla Dam. That left them destitute so they took up an invitation to fill labour shortages in English textile mills but deindustrialisation ended those jobs shortly after arrival. The ravenous western appetite for Saudi oil then saw enormous Wahhabi mosques built in every British city centre. The uprooted and disoriented Mirpuris were in no position to resist so their traditional South Asian Islam soon gave way to the extortionately funded and aggressively promoted Saudi version. Poor economic prospects, poor health outcomes, racism at both the institutional and interpersonal level; also all caused alienation which in turn furthered the retreat into Saudi Islam.

Rather than the identity characteristics of migrants being the issue, problems have developed mostly post-migration from underlying economic factors not being addressed.

[ClydeTon]

Just now, FreedomFarter said:

Mirpuri Pakistanis moved to north and central England in the 1960s. In Pakistan, they were entirely dependent on subsistence farming yet had all their agricultural land flooded when an American consortium built the Mangla Dam. That left them destitute so they took up an invitation to fill labour shortages in English textile mills but deindustrialisation ended those jobs shortly after arrival. The ravenous western appetite for Saudi oil then saw enormous Wahhabi mosques built in every British city centre. The uprooted and disoriented Mirpuris were in no position to resist so their traditional South Asian Islam soon gave way to the extortionately funded and aggressively promoted Saudi version. Poor economic prospects, poor health outcomes, racism at both the institutional and interpersonal level; also all caused alienation which in turn furthered the retreat into Saudi Islam.

Rather than the identity characteristics of migrants being the issue, problems have developed mostly post-migration from underlying economic factors not being addressed.

Yes, of course the economic factors play a part - but the Right-Wing rhetoric (which I suppose I've accidentally played into there) uses the Identity Politics side to cover up the economic mismanagement related.

So as far as the people who are anti-immigration are concerned, it's about the identities and characteristics- unfortunately.

[Marten]

14 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/07/dutch-pm-set-to-resign-after-failing-to-reach-immigration-agreement

The whole western world is obsessed with trying to show off who can hate immigrants the most. Depressing. Hopefully this doesn't result in the Dutch taking a further lurch to the right but it probably will.

Didn't the Dutch used to be cool, hippy, Liberal types?

Basically, the largest party in the coalition, VVD (right of centre liberal party) felt pressure from the far-right and wanted to re-negotiate the coalition deal in terms of immigration. D'66 (basically the Dutch LibDems) and ChristianUnion (left of centre, socially somewhat conservative) were having none of that. ChristianUnion is the most open on immigration and said they are not re-opening a debate that they saw as settled in the coalition negotiations, when they already had to settle on a difficult compromise. They made very clear at the time that this was a line they wouldn't cross and if others would cross it, they'd step out of the coalition. They kept their word, resulting in the government collapsing.

I don't agree with ChristianUnion on everything, but I do respect that they are consistent, the most consistent Dutch party when excluding really small minor parties. They are principled and with them it's "what you see is what you get", which I definitely respect.

[Bully Wee Villa]

What do the opinion polls suggest? Is it likely to be good news for the far right mob?

[Marten]

20 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

What do the opinion polls suggest? Is it likely to be good news for the far right mob?

The worst party on the far right seem, FVD (Forum for Democracy) seem to be getting pretty much wiped out. That is good news, as they are properly mental conspiracy nutters. Fully bought into the antivax rubbish, completely adore Putin and so on. The far-right freedom party (PVV) seem to lose slightly as well. Those votes do stay on the right, as the relatively newly formed Farmer Citizens Movement (BBB) seem to sweep up a lot of votes from the far-right. They aren't my favourites either but in fairness, they are nowhere near as extreme as FVD/PVV, so rather BBB than the other 2.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Marten

[Bully Wee Villa]

Thanks. Doesn't sound like will be as bad as I feared then hopefully.

[Marten]

2 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

Thanks. Doesn't sound like will be as bad as I feared then hopefully.

Yep, although obviously it's still early days. The election will probably be in November so some time to go. I get a postal vote so I'll need to think who I want to vote for, which isn't an easy decision for me to be honest, but anything to stop the far-right mob!

[Marten]

Surprising development in The Netherlands. Mark Rutte, who is the longest serving Dutch PM in history having started in 2010, has announced he will NOT stand for re-election and leave politics.

I wasn't expecting that tbh, it will be interesting to see who will become the new VVD leader, and with that the most likely next PM. His deputy Sophie Hermans is seen as favourite, if she becomes the leader she could become the first femal PM in The Netherlands.