Cancel culture

[ICTChris]

I haven’t read this thread since creating it, I assume it’s pretty awful.

It did spring to mind when I saw the story about Ollie Robinson, who has been suspended from the England cricket team for sending racist tweets when he was 18 and 19. He’s now 27. The tweets are linked below.

At the same time the Green Party candidate for the upcoming Bately by-election has withdrawn his candidacy after homophobic tweets he posted as a teenager came to light. I can’t find the tweets but the following was reported about it

At the time of writing, there are currently 32 tweets online in which the rugby player uses “gay” as an insult, and 20 in which he uses the word “f*g”.

Other comments include referring to women as “hoes” and “b***hes”, and in one tweet he wrote: “Big brother is Some mind numbin s**t Fink a just lost a few brain cells watchin 10mins is just a house wi ugly B***hes an gays load a W**k.”
 

At what point do we say that was when you were a kid, we all do stupid stuff let it go? Do we say that at all? I remember before the NFL draft a few years ago someone found old tweets from Kyler Murray, who was a shoe in for the number one pick, where he called people “queers”. The tweets were from when he was 15, he apologised and it had no bearing on his draft, he got taken number one, or his career. Josh Allen was drafted high the previous year and just before the draft tweets with him using the n word came out. He’d been in high school and again it doesn’t seem to have had any bearing on his career.

What should we do about stuff like this? I think it’s obvious that there has to be leeway for people doing stuff when they are kids but it can’t be a get out of jail free card if someone is caught doing something wrong.

 

[ICTChris]

I’ve messed up the formatting of that post on my phone.

I also think we are seeing a micro-generational thing here. Most of these tweets and comments were posted eight or nine years ago when the impact of your social media on your job or future wasn’t really a consideration. Even a little while after this people realised that this could have an impact and changed their behaviour. I am old so don’t understand how platforms like Snapchat work but I understand that what you post there isn’t saved and this isn’t searchable. 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

It's not the end of the world for the guy tho' is it? He'll be back in the test squad soon. He's getting a suspension from that side for a game or two because the ECB, rightly, needs to show a zero tolerance approach. He'll say the right things and be back on the team before you can say "get that facebook comment deleted mate"

[NotThePars]

Everybody was homophobic in like 2010 that's my take. We should probably have a statute of limitations on these things or everyone should be forced to set up tweet deleters when they sign up. Or just get off social media.

Edited June 8, 2021 by NotThePars

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

Yeah I dunno what it's like now in schools but I think a lot of folk maybe forget or don't realise because of general "wokeness" amongst the generation as adults that homophobia, casual racist jokes and worse were pretty everyday among folk who were in high school in the late 2000s/early 2010s, sort of linking back to the Borat conversation the other week. Combine that with Social Media emerging and everything wanting to be edgy as heck and anyone who's never purged their early social media probably has something a bit off, if not quite the above.  I think as long as someone is apologetic and acknowledges that they were a dick that should be it tbh, different to people who say mad shit like that when they're like 37 or some such. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[ICTChris]

https://wisden.com/stories/news-stories/another-racist-tweet-posted-by-current-england-player-emerges

“Emerges” is a bit much. You went and trawled through all the players accounts and found a shitty tweet from someone when they were in fucking school.

[Michael W]

Athletes/politicians etc would be well advised to erase their social media history when they come to the fore. Too many of them seem to fall foul of this. 

I don't really think it's fair to use things people said a number of years ago when they were teenagers as a stick to beat them with, although clearly what's been said shouldn't have been said and was still wrong at the time. I don't know if Robinson was a cricketer at the time, but clearly if he was he wasn't prominent so no-one cared.  Teenagers do daft things and hopefully with the right contrition he will be forgiven for that. 

The ECB has to do something. Probably a ban for a couple of series or something, reflecting the time span from the comments. If he'd done it now I would have no sympathy at all. 

I guess the difference is that even in my own teenage days, social media isn't what it was now. The Bebo pages will have since been deleted and removing compromising content. Those growing up now really ought to be more self aware of the harm these things do. 

There is no point pretending that my own school days were some sort of beacon of inclusion and equally no point in pretending I was above it either. Overt racism (i.e directed at an individual) was seen as unacceptable, but that was it. Racist jokes were widely shared and homophobia was widespread, indeed  par for the course and used as a generic insult.

I left in 2007 so have no idea how things have changed. I get the sense they have for the better, and I hope so. I still think about the homophobia part. We were told very clearly in school racism was wrong, but homophobia was never challenged and indeed only started to be challenged even a little by the time I left. No one joined the dots to see that it was pretty much the same as racism - mistreating people and abusing them because they were different. 

 

 

[Michael W]

14 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Yeah I dunno what it's like now in schools but I think a lot of folk maybe forget or don't realise because of general "wokeness" amongst the generation as adults that homophobia, casual racist jokes and worse were pretty everyday among folk who were in high school in the late 2000s/early 2010s, sort of linking back to the Borat conversation the other week. Combine that with Social Media emerging and everything wanting to be edgy as heck and anyone who's never purged their early social media probably has something a bit off, if not quite the above.  I think as long as someone is apologetic and acknowledges that they were a dick that should be it tbh, different to people who say mad shit like that when they're like 37 or some such. 

Borat is a perfect illustration here. 

I went to see it at the time and thought it was the funniest thing ever. I watched it again a couple of years ago and switched if off as I just found it a continuous cringe. 

[Bairnardo]

1 minute ago, Michael W said:

Athletes/politicians etc would be well advised to erase their social media history when they come to the fore. Too many of them seem to fall foul of this. 

I don't really think it's fair to use things people said a number of years ago when they were teenagers as a stick to beat them with, although clearly what's been said shouldn't have been said and was still wrong at the time. I don't know if Robinson was a cricketer at the time, but clearly if he was he wasn't prominent so no-one cared.  Teenagers do daft things and hopefully with the right contrition he will be forgiven for that. 

The ECB has to do something. Probably a ban for a couple of series or something, reflecting the time span from the comments. If he'd done it now I would have no sympathy at all. 

I guess the difference is that even in my own teenage days, social media isn't what it was now. The Bebo pages will have since been deleted and removing compromising content. Those growing up now really ought to be more self aware of the harm these things do. 

There is no point pretending that my own school days were some sort of beacon of inclusion and equally no point in pretending I was above it either. Overt racism (i.e directed at an individual) was seen as unacceptable, but that was it. Racist jokes were widely shared and homophobia was widespread, indeed  par for the course and used as a generic insult.

I left in 2007 so have no idea how things have changed. I get the sense they have for the better, and I hope so. I still think about the homophobia part. We were told very clearly in school racism was wrong, but homophobia was never challenged and indeed only started to be challenged even a little by the time I left. No one joined the dots to see that it was pretty much the same as racism - mistreating people and abusing them because they were different. 

My Bebo page would stand as no more than a monument to how fucking pish I was at reading signs re trying to get my hole*. A warning to current me from past me, which if time travel ever comes, I will relay back to young me.......

 

 

*it might also provide some evidence of a timeline of my experimenting with recreational drugs

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

4 minutes ago, Michael W said:

Borat is a perfect illustration here. 

I went to see it at the time and thought it was the funniest thing ever. I watched it again a couple of years ago and switched if off as I just found it a continuous cringe. 

Aye there was a disagreement in the Corbyn/Israel thread about SBC and Borats legacy about this but like for a year afterwards in my high school at least you couldn't avoid credulous parroting of the Jewish jokes, or "ma wiiiiiife" which tbf remains extremely funny 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[coprolite]

The shit will really hit the fan when Boris Johnson's old "journalism" emerges. 

Or not, for some unfathomable reason. 

[SANTAN]

Maths is shite. 

[dorlomin]

A great many people managed to not be racist, homophobic or sexist without "wokeness". People have been publicly challenging racism for decades without the febrile, smug hysteria every "culture war" issue attracts online these days. 

The sudden outburst of almost adult sensibility in looking at Robinson age and the nature of his tweets is commendable, if more than a touch self serving from those who may have skeletons in their own closets. It would seem "never any excuse for racism" needs to be amended to "never any excuse for racism except being at school in the 2000s."

On the other hand Michael Carberry and Ramps have had their say. 

Quote

 

"I've heard people express sort of sympathy with Ollie Robinson, and say 'hasn't he shown a lot of character?', but I haven't heard enough about the victims or the people that these tweets are aimed at," said Ramprakash.

"How do they feel? Where is the sympathy for those people? They are UK citizens, a lot of them.

"We live in a diverse society and we really don't want this behaviour."

 

Quote

However, Michael Carberry, who played six Tests for England between 2010 and 2014, told 5 Live that Robinson "wouldn't be playing Test cricket" if it was up to him, adding: "I don't believe this is a problem where you can rehabilitate someone."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/57398052

The ECB will have clear guidelines for what is acceptable to post on social media. Those guidelines apply to their young players at 19 as much as veterans at 39. They will have to navigate the toxic atmosphere of modern politics and online activism. Not an enviable task. Their rules rather than the mood on Twitter should be the the standard this played is judged by.

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by dorlomin

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

What a loser!

[Paul Kersey]

5 hours ago, Stormzy said:

Maths is shite. 

Bunch a wanks...

[SANTAN]

On the theme discussed earlier I'd agree with much of it growing up in the same era, everyone's favourite Limmy actually publically cancelled me for tweets when I was 17/18..

Andre Grays cancellation was spectacular though, most of the homophobic language was lazy but this guy was on another level. Pretty sure he was on about burning gay people or something. Don't think he ever recovered from that one. 

[Guest TheJTS98]

6 hours ago, Michael W said:

Athletes/politicians etc would be well advised to erase their social media history when they come to the fore. Too many of them seem to fall foul of this. 

I don't really think it's fair to use things people said a number of years ago when they were teenagers as a stick to beat them with, although clearly what's been said shouldn't have been said and was still wrong at the time. I don't know if Robinson was a cricketer at the time, but clearly if he was he wasn't prominent so no-one cared.  Teenagers do daft things and hopefully with the right contrition he will be forgiven for that. 

The ECB has to do something. Probably a ban for a couple of series or something, reflecting the time span from the comments. If he'd done it now I would have no sympathy at all. 

I guess the difference is that even in my own teenage days, social media isn't what it was now. The Bebo pages will have since been deleted and removing compromising content. Those growing up now really ought to be more self aware of the harm these things do. 

There is no point pretending that my own school days were some sort of beacon of inclusion and equally no point in pretending I was above it either. Overt racism (i.e directed at an individual) was seen as unacceptable, but that was it. Racist jokes were widely shared and homophobia was widespread, indeed  par for the course and used as a generic insult.

I left in 2007 so have no idea how things have changed. I get the sense they have for the better, and I hope so. I still think about the homophobia part. We were told very clearly in school racism was wrong, but homophobia was never challenged and indeed only started to be challenged even a little by the time I left. No one joined the dots to see that it was pretty much the same as racism - mistreating people and abusing them because they were different. 

 

 

I left school in 2001, and it would be interesting to see how much that passed for playground humour then would now result in pretty severe action. Things were simply very different.

I agree with the gist of your post, but I disagree that the ECB actually have to do much here. They could go public and say this kind of stuff is unacceptable and he's going to do some kind of community service type thing, but it happened a long time ago and we don't think it should harm his career as a mature adult.

That would be a pretty reasonable response, I think.

Growing up in public and in a way that is recorded forever for some smug p***k to go trawling through years later is a shite kind of life.

Sort of a distant cousin of parents who put embarrassing pictures of their babies/toddlers on social media. Who knows what they'll be in the future, and once that stuff is posted, it's posted. Leave it out, etc.

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by TheJTS98

[Billy Jean King]

https://wisden.com/stories/news-stories/another-racist-tweet-posted-by-current-england-player-emerges

“Emerges” is a bit much. You went and trawled through all the players accounts and found a shitty tweet from someone when they were in fucking school.

This is the bit I don't get. Some total loon ball is either sitting there scanning the news for names then trawling through umpteen social media sites hoping to be offended or it's someone who knows the person in question who has harboured a grudge for years and has been biding their time just hoping they might one day be in the public spotlight thus giving them their opportunity for revenge.

Either way these folk are mental. Total freaks !

[ICTChris]

2 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

This is the bit I don't get. Some total loon ball is either sitting there scanning the news for names then trawling through umpteen social media sites hoping to be offended or it's someone who knows the person in question who has harboured a grudge for years and has been biding their time just hoping they might one day be in the public spotlight thus giving them their opportunity for revenge.

Either way these folk are mental. Total freaks !

Journalists will have gone back through the publicly available tweets to see if there's anything juicy.  

I wonder if there are any public figures on P&B whose career we could ruin?  

[Miguel Sanchez]

Just been on twitter and saw this in the trends

Lots of normal content on twitter dot com, I'm sure.