scottsdad Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 55 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Trans people are perfectly entitled to hold whatever view they like. Personally, I am less interested in how people feel and prefer to stick to the scientific arguments underpinning that view. I'm happy to be guided by any emerging science which can support a view that you can physically change your sex from the one you were born with. What is troubling me is the idea that discussion is being clamped down with people losing their jobs over it. As for your last sentence, I am in full agreement and have never said otherwise. You can certainly hold that view whilst still firmly believing they are wrong about being a different sex to the one they were born as. ETA. Just as an added thought. If you genuinely believe they have changed their gender, why are you referring to them as "trans-men" or "trans-women"? Surely they are just men or women? The fact that people stick the word "trans" in front of it sounds like a way of dealing with cognitive dissonance but I'm happy to be corrected on that. Two points. First, treating people's transgender status as a "view" is denigrating. You're comparing it to an opinion, like what they think in regards to the chippy vs chipper debate, rather than an integral part of who they are as a person. Second, I don't think I have referred to trans-men and trans-women. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 6 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Yep, the concepts of transgenderism, gender questioning, homosexuality, bisexuality etc all predate the abrahamic religions which are so vehemently opposed to them. I find it very strange that people can just claim that ‘god thinks this’ or ‘jesus would be sad at the thought of a person changing gender’ when actually if you ever really look at writings about Jesus he was essentially a big hippie socialist guy to put a modern label on it. There’s also a very interesting school of thought which suggests Jesus was partial to spending the night with Paul and that they were lovers. How people can take the sorta consensus held through most theologic academia about Jesus and try and suggest that he would defend their ultra conservative dogma or embody this really hate filled position they take on life suggests to me they havent got the grasp on their religion in the way they should. It’s almost like they are using their ‘faith’ and twisting it to suit a very narrow agenda which has no basis in historical context or logic. Ancient Hellenic philosophers like Plato were famously all for a bit of manlove there wasn't much confusion there It was the duality that came with postulating a higher level of existence beyond the mundane physical reality that has been more problematic. Christians inherited this as the distinction between body and soul and shouldn't find the idea of a "female soul in a male body" too difficult to fit into their worldview, if anything it's rational materialists who should be struggling 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWorldwideJr Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Trans/transgender is an adjective. You add it to the front of man or woman to add extra information about the person in question. He is a man, he is also trans, two separate pieces of information. It doesn't invalidate the man or woman that its describing anymore than saying 'a blonde man' or 'a tall woman' would invalidate them. Its just added information. The above reason is why there is no hyphen, its just 'trans man' or 'trans woman'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 1 hour ago, carpetmonster said: Certainly sounds more likely than Jesus being a big fan of semi-automatic weapons, which is espoused from the rooftops by millions of folks in America. True faith is often based on hate. The Westboro Baptist Church are "arguably the most obnoxious and rabid hate group in America", per the Southern Poverty Law Center, but they're not usually accused of being insincere. No, that is literally (and I hardly ever use that word) the opposite of true faith. That's using faith as a reason for intrinsic hatred. The two must be defined properly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 16 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Typo meant John. But there are scholars who also believe Paul was gay. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/apr/20/was-jesus-gay-probably https://qspirit.net/apostle-paul-homosexuality/ https://qspirit.net/john-evangelist-beloved-disciple/ Pure provocation at those with faith and w**k material for those who don't. Again, disappointing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Just now, jimbaxters said: Pure provocation at those with faith and w**k material for those who don't. Again, disappointing. I find the whole thing complete sky fairy tosh but i dont see the problem in the theory that jesus himself may have been gay? I certainly dont think he’d recognise his teachings in many of the acts carried out in his name over the course of the years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Oaksoft: how dare you tell me what precautions I should take regarding this pandemic. I am outraged. Nobody should be imposing their views on me. Also Oaksoft: people are born either male or female, and that's that. I am outraged. Nobody should be telling me that I can't impose my views on other people. Libertorians, eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Just now, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: I find the whole thing complete sky fairy tosh but i dont see the problem in the theory that jesus himself may have been gay? I certainly dont think he’d recognise his teachings in many of the acts carried out in his name over the course of the years. In his name is very different from what he did. So it's a load of rubbish for you unless there's something that might annoy others who view faith differently from you. Again, provocative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Jesus wasn't real. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 10 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Jesus wasn't real. Spurs fan found 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Just now, topcat(The most tip top) said: Spurs fan found Don't get the reference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 9 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Jesus wasn't real. Just imagine you died, and a few hundred years later people started writing stories about your life and the superhero team of P&B posters who upvoted you on the regular. By the year 4000, everyone could be wearing mini-prams around their necks, and fighting wars over how the receiver is supposed to lie in them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Lanley Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 5 hours ago, Scotty Tunbridge said: The fall of James Cordon may be upon us people, this is not a drill. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 1 minute ago, DA Baracus said: Don't get the reference. I did; worth the accusations of antisemitism coming his way IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Don't get the reference. It was intended as a reference to Gabriel Jesus Arsenal’s Brazilian striker Given that this is the cancellation thread I should make clear that it wasn’t intended as a reference to Spurs large Jewish support 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 16 minutes ago, jimbaxters said: In his name is very different from what he did. So it's a load of rubbish for you unless there's something that might annoy others who view faith differently from you. Again, provocative. I dont have a problem with anyone having any faith at all. The same way i dont have any problem with people changing gender, marrying someone of the same sex or any number of things that many faith groups oppose. I dont believe that people should have to be forced to carry their rapists child based on obscure texts written over a thousand years ago, I also dont believe that people should be encouraged to forgo basic medical and health opportunities for the same reason. I dont see how thats a load of rubbish. You seem very upset. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 12 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: I dont have a problem with anyone having any faith at all. The same way i dont have any problem with people changing gender, marrying someone of the same sex or any number of things that many faith groups oppose. I dont believe that people should have to be forced to carry their rapists child based on obscure texts written over a thousand years ago, I also dont believe that people should be encouraged to forgo basic medical and health opportunities for the same reason. I dont see how thats a load of rubbish. You seem very upset. No, not upset, just a bit fed up of faith being the only legitimate punchbag on this forum. For example, of the above list, the only one you have poked fun at is anyone having a faith by saying it's "sky fairy tosh". Only trying to redress the balance slightly, in a ham-fisted way admittedly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, jimbaxters said: No, not upset, just a bit fed up of faith being the only legitimate punchbag on this forum. For example, of the above list, the only one you have poked fun at is anyone having a faith by saying it's "sky fairy tosh". Only trying to redress the balance slightly, in a ham-fisted way admittedly. Atheists rule, ya bass......................... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, jimbaxters said: No, not upset, just a bit fed up of faith being the only legitimate punchbag on this forum. For example, of the above list, the only one you have poked fun at is anyone having a faith by saying it's "sky fairy tosh". Only trying to redress the balance slightly, in a ham-fisted way admittedly. Are you comparing the utter bullshit that is religion to someone being gay? Are you saying both are beliefs? Relgious folk are supposed to be strong in their faith I thought, so why worry what those who don't buy the absolutely shite it is think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 55 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Ancient Hellenic philosophers like Plato were famously all for a bit of manlove there wasn't much confusion there It was more boy love for the classical Athenians. It was taboo once your lover grew hair on their legs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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