OFFICIAL HEARTS JUGGERNAUT THREAD 2020-

[paranoid android]

12 hours ago, G51 said:

Halkett's a die-hard Rangers fan. One of many in your team, it would appear.

I think it's great that there are so many roman catholics playing for rangers these days.

What a wonderful example of a fully integrated society. 

[AJF]

Let’s be honest, Hearts fans don’t give a f**k about Souttar’s “ambition”. They just didn’t want him to sign for us, which I completely get. 

[Kyle Reese]

16 minutes ago, AJF said:

Let’s be honest, Hearts fans don’t give a f**k about Souttar’s “ambition”. They just didn’t want him to sign for us, which I completely get. 

Not where I’m at tbh. I don’t really care what club he decides to go to. Once his contract with HMFC expires, he absolutely should choose to sign for the club that ticks the most boxes for him and his family.

What bothers me, is the way he did it. A pre-contract with a club in the same division, is the worst possible result for HMFC. Souttar benefits, sneaky wee Jackie benefits, Rangers benefit. HMFC get stuck with a player who’s committed to a club that are still on our fixture list, and won’t get any financial recompense.

There were ways Souttar could have gone about this, but the way he chose feels like a slap in the face to the supporters and the (fan owned) club.

For some it might be because he went to Rangers, but I suspect more people are just a bit disappointed in how he went about it.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by Kyle Reese

[Tony Wonder]

15 minutes ago, AJF said:

Let’s be honest, Hearts fans don’t give a f**k about Souttar’s “ambition”. They just didn’t want him to sign for us, which I completely get. 

It can be both. I wanted him to go down to England, play to his potential and get a better move as I think he's easily capable of playing in the PL.

He could take that route from this move, but it's far more likely he'll get comfy and stay and not push himself as far as he could a la Scott Brown or McGregor at Celtic. 

And obviously no one wants him going to a club in the same league, it's almost impossible to wish him well in that case.

[G51]

1 minute ago, Kyle Reese said:

Not where I’m at tbh. I don’t really care what club he decides to go to. Once his contract with HMFC expires, he absolutely should choose to sign for the club that ticks the most boxes for him and his family.

What bothers me, is the way he did it. A pre-contract with a club in the same division, is the worst possible result for HMFC. Souttar benefits, sneaky wee Jackie benefits, Rangers benefit. HMFC get stuck with a player who’s committed to a club that are still on our fixture list, and won’t get any financial recompense.

There we’re ways Souttar could have gone about this, but the way he chose feels like a slap in the face to the supporters and the (fan owned) club.

For some it might be because he went to Rangers, but I suspect more people are just a bit disappointed in how he went about it.

Hearts do this to other clubs in the same division. It’s how they signed Souttar in the first place. They did it with Halkett too. Players have agency over who they work for.

[Kyle Reese]

1 minute ago, G51 said:

Hearts do this to other clubs in the same division. It’s how they signed Souttar in the first place. They did it with Halkett too. Players have agency over who they work for.

With Halkett, we didn’t disclose the deal until the season was over.

Souttar was being played out of position, and often not getting a game. We paid United a fee.

[AJF]

16 minutes ago, Kyle Reese said:

With Halkett, we didn’t disclose the deal until the season was over.

Souttar was being played out of position, and often not getting a game. We paid United a fee.

Why would it matter that the deal was disclosed or not?

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

8 minutes ago, AJF said:

Why would it matter that the deal was disclosed or not?

Unless you're being completely disingenuous, of course it makes a difference.  Announcing pre-contracts is 100% about trying to force the hand of the club to sell him on the cheap now.   His commitment will be doubted and he'll be getting abuse every time he plays.

Souttar was signed by hearts in a transfer, not on a pre-contract, so it's apples and oranges.  

 

[AJF]

6 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

Unless you're being completely disingenuous, of course it makes a difference.  Announcing pre-contracts is 100% about trying to force the hand of the club to sell him on the cheap now.   His commitment will be doubted and he'll be getting abuse every time he plays.

Souttar was signed by hearts in a transfer, not on a pre-contract, so it's apples and oranges.  

 

I was comparing it to the Halkett deal, actually.

The complaint was that Souttar signed a pre-contract with a club in the same division. It was pointed out that Hearts do the exact same (Halkett deal was used as an example) but the defence was that deal wasn’t disclosed until the season was over (which it wasn’t).

Edited January 15, 2022 by AJF

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

1 minute ago, AJF said:

I was comparing it to the Halkett deal, actually.

The complaint was that Souttar signed a pre-contract with a club in the same division. It was pointed out that Hearts do the exact same (Halkett deal was used as an example) but the defence was that deal wasn’t disclosed until the season was over.

I was addressing two different points tbf.  The first part is about why it makes a difference.

The souttar point was in response to G51 saying we signed him the same way, which is not the case

[AJF]

Just now, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

I was addressing two different points tbf.  The first part is about why it makes a difference.

The souttar point was in response to G51 saying we signed him the same way, which is not the case

But the complaint was that Souttar has signed a pre-contract with a team in the same division. It wasn’t a complaint about when it was announced.

That’s my point. Obviously anyone is going to be annoyed losing a player they want to keep to a pre-contract deal, it was just pointed out that every club does it, including Hearts.

[Kyle Reese]

1 minute ago, AJF said:

But the complaint was that Souttar has signed a pre-contract with a team in the same division. It wasn’t a complaint about when it was announced.

That’s my point. Obviously anyone is going to be annoyed losing a player they want to keep to a pre-contract deal, it was just pointed out that every club does it, including Hearts.

Actually, I must admit, I was wrong about Halkett. We did indeed announce it. Bad form that. Livi fans would be in their rights to be pissed about that. I agree with Alexander, shouldn’t be allowed between teams in the same division. Hands up though, I remembered it differently.

Souttar from United was an entirely different scenario however.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

8 minutes ago, AJF said:

But the complaint was that Souttar has signed a pre-contract with a team in the same division. It wasn’t a complaint about when it was announced.

That’s my point. Obviously anyone is going to be annoyed losing a player they want to keep to a pre-contract deal, it was just pointed out that every club does it, including Hearts.

You asked why it was different.  If you can't see that publicly fanfaring a deal with a player and immediately putting his commitment during the remainder of the season in question with the support is different from doing it and not making it public I'd be surprised.  'm sure in England you can only sign a pre-contract outside your league which seems a better solution.  

Personally I hope we agree a deal and get him off the books immediately.  I also hope he is absolutely shite at Rangers

Edited January 15, 2022 by Insert Amusing Pseudonym

[AJF]

1 minute ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

You asked why it was different.  If you can't see that publicly fanfaring a deal with a player and immediately putting his commitment during the remainder of the season with the support is different from doing it and not making it public I'd be surprised.  'm sure in England you can only sign a pre-contract outside your league which seems a better solution.  

Personally I hope we agree a deal and get him off the books immediately.  I also hope he is absolutely shite at Rangers

I asked why it was different in context to the original complaint, which was Souttar signing a pre-contract deal with a team in the same division.

Whether it was announced or not (which we’ve now established that it was) makes no difference, the end result in both scenarios is a player has signed a pre-contract deal with another team in the same division.

If the complaint was that the deal being announced in the January window is poor because it forced Hearts’ hand, then that’s a different argument. But that isn’t what was being criticised originally, it was just the fact that he’d signed a pre-contract.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

6 minutes ago, Kyle Reese said:

Actually, I must admit, I was wrong about Halkett. We did indeed announce it. Bad form that. Livi fans would be in their rights to be pissed about that. I agree with Alexander, shouldn’t be allowed between teams in the same division. Hands up though, I remembered it differently.

Souttar from United was an entirely different scenario however.

We did, but in April, so there was no question of him coming before the end of the season

[Kyle Reese]

Just now, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

We did, but in April, so there was no question of him coming before the end of the season

Ah, that makes sense now, thank you. Knew there was something.

[Gorgie greatness]

2 hours ago, AJF said:

Let’s be honest, Hearts fans don’t give a f**k about Souttar’s “ambition”. They just didn’t want him to sign for us, which I completely get. 

Signing for the zombies when you had a “chance” to play in EPL next season shows no ambition at all.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

2 hours ago, AJF said:

Let’s be honest, Hearts fans don’t give a f**k about Souttar’s “ambition”. They just didn’t want him to sign for us, which I completely get. 

Now this I agree with.  If a player leaves Hearts on good terms then I'm glad if they go on to do well but frankly don't care where it is other than it not being Hibs, Celtic or Rangers 

[DMCs]

34 minutes ago, Gorgie greatness said:

Signing for the zombies when you had a “chance” to play in EPL next season shows no ambition at all.

A 30% chance of playing in the Premier League or a 75% chance of Champions League was his choice really. The complaints about "lack of ambition" is just cope. You would rather he went to England as you don't want him going to another team in the same league and especially us. Nothing to do with ambition.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

3 hours ago, Tony Wonder said:

It can be both. I wanted him to go down to England, play to his potential and get a better move as I think he's easily capable of playing in the PL.

He could take that route from this move, but it's far more likely he'll get comfy and stay and not push himself as far as he could a la Scott Brown or McGregor at Celtic. 

And obviously no one wants him going to a club in the same league, it's almost impossible to wish him well in that case.

The difference between Souttar and McGregor/Brown is that he had concrete offers to go down South and didn’t take them.

Everyone expected McGregor to follow Rodgers to Leicester but the reality was at that point Rodgers was able to buy at a far higher level and get guys like Tielemans so was never really interested in McGregor. Brown never had the chance to move either.