Scottish lower league football locked down for 3 weeks

[BairnMunich]

Hi Everyone, 

If you support a Championship, League One or League Two club, would you mind taking a minute to fill out my dissertation survey? Will take no more than a minute and be very helpful to me. Thanks in advance!

The survey asks about your opinion on your clubs social media and is COMPLETELY anonymous.

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/RVTJ7FX

[haufdaft]

2 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Good luck with that. Just checking you do know you can't MAKE people extend contracts if they don't want to, yes? We're not the English Premiership / Championship where guys are earning tens of thousands a week and they were all in the same position, and even there some players refused to extend (Ryan Fraser, Lyle Taylor, etc). Players who have pre-contracts and new deals waiting for them from down South or Scottish Premiership clubs or even bigger lower division clubs aren't going to extend contracts when they don't have to.

Then don't play these players, play others. If we can continue the Scottish cup with completely different squads, some having played and been registered with two different teams over it's duration I'm sure the SPFL could have made extraordinary efforts to accommodate playoffs.

 

I'd suggest the majority of players would've been willing to extend contracts in order to play in the playoffs.

Teams that can't field a team forfeit the tie as happened in the league cup this season.

[banditjag]

43 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

You seem unhappy about the organisations that your club are a member of. Have you asked why they continue to support those organisations and what they've done to help change them?

That's you deciding what I'm unhappy about now? Your view is myopic or are you just fishing? 

Just to make sure you understand where I am on this. I am unhappy and have concerns about how the spfl have been run by their employee and elected board. I am aware, as I am sure you are too, I, as a supporter have zero control nor influence in such matters as the democratic process does not involve ordinary fans. So beyond being unhappy, sending an e mail to my club and posting on here I am toothless and have no say.

To your second point which is myopic, the clubs have zero options bar to be part of the spfl and SFA so your point is pointless, unless it is designed just to elicit a response. All professional clubs must come under the umbrella of their country's association, to suggest otherwise is stupidity and I'm convinced you are far from stupid and so must deduce you are at the wind up.

[The Moonster]

9 minutes ago, haufdaft said:

Then don't play these players, play others.

Deary me.

[Sergeant Wilson]

6 minutes ago, banditjag said:

That's you deciding what I'm unhappy about now? Your view is myopic or are you just fishing? 

Just to make sure you understand where I am on this. I am unhappy and have concerns about how the spfl have been run by their employee and elected board. I am aware, as I am sure you are too, I, as a supporter have zero control nor influence in such matters as the democratic process does not involve ordinary fans. So beyond being unhappy, sending an e mail to my club and posting on here I am toothless and have no say.

To your second point which is myopic, the clubs have zero options bar to be part of the spfl and SFA so your point is pointless, unless it is designed just to elicit a response. All professional clubs must come under the umbrella of their country's association, to suggest otherwise is stupidity and I'm convinced you are far from stupid and so must deduce you are at the wind up.

You do have influence. Tell your club you won't be back until they start to represent your views to The SPFL.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, haufdaft said:

Then don't play these players, play others. If we can continue the Scottish cup with completely different squads, some having played and been registered with two different teams over it's duration I'm sure the SPFL could have made extraordinary efforts to accommodate playoffs.

 

I'd suggest the majority of players would've been willing to extend contracts in order to play in the playoffs.

Teams that can't field a team forfeit the tie as happened in the league cup this season.

Right then. So your solution to potentially running out of time to solve a tight relegation or promotion race is to play it out without your best players (it would inevitably be the best ones who would refuse) and issue forfeits if they can't play? Right then, no bother with that. That won't be farcical at all.

You won't be able to sign new players immediately, you'll be outwith the transfer window potentially and FIFA have already made it clear there will be no amendment to those for lower league suspensions. Even if you could who's going to sign a short term contract with a club for a few weeks (which would in itself require a rule change) when they could sign for someone else and ensure their future for a year.

[jagsfan57]

Maybe as a board they reviewed the action at the end of last season and thought of a solution that would have allowed them to act more decisively. Without recourse to the clubs and avoiding the inevitable self interest that would be brought to the equation.
The clubs knocked it back.

That’s what I mean. The SPFL board did not have authority to decide how to deal with disruption, but they went ahead and made a decision with the Scottish Govt anyway. Or maybe the loophole is that it was the SFA ?

[jagsfan57]

If it needs spelled out again, the SPFL did NOT suspend football.

You are right - it was the SFA and the Scottish Govt that decided to suspend some league football. Do the SFA have that authority ?

[Skyline Drifter]

44 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

You are right - it was the SFA and the Scottish Govt that decided to suspend some league football. Do the SFA have that authority ?

Well it was the SFA themselves, whilst the Govt via the Health Minister were involved in the discussion, it wasn't a Govt decision and the Govt exemption for "elite" leagues to take play subject to protocols is still in place.

And yes, quite obviously they do. It's an overall encompassing authority, it's not limited to any particular league.

[banditjag]

2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

You do have influence. Tell your club you won't be back until they start to represent your views to The SPFL.

I get that but not for me. As much as I have no time for our chair (there's a pattern developing here) I couldn't stop supporting my club. I won't be back attitude doesn't work for me but can understand it does for some. I admire your optimism re individual fan's having a voice tho.

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, banditjag said:

I get that but not for me. As much as I have no time for our chair (there's a pattern developing here) I couldn't stop supporting my club. I won't be back attitude doesn't work for me but can understand it does for some. I admire your optimism re individual fan's having a voice tho.

Fans do have a voice and it makes a difference. Fans of every club wrote to their chairmen/women and told them they wouldn't be back if they voted Rangers into any division other than the 3rd when they went bust. That caused the then SPL clubs to vote them out, before asking the SFL clubs to vote them into tier 2, which again was roundly kyboshed by fans saying they wouldn't be back if that happened. 

The fact that fans like yourself are happy paying money to the club and not making your concerns known is why clubs and the league body continue to bumble along as they are. If enough fans say they won't be back until things change then things will change. 

[craigkillie]

4 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

The Scottish Cup is a real problem. It's unfortunate they didn't get another round in before it was suspended and that the weather in the fortnight before was so bad. It's left a lot of non league sides still involved and you'd have to assume they aren't coming back any time soon even if League 1 and 2 do. Ultimately it's a far bigger problem than it was last season when there were only 4 teams left by the time we shut down. They are going to be left with three options:
 - Hold it over which will leave a lot of ties to fit in next season.
 - prioritise it when football does come back, at least to play a couple of rounds and remove most of the lower division / non-league sides.
 - Most radically, remove the non league sides from it so that it can be played out this season. Presumably they'd need compensated.

Or I suppose the nuclear option 4, of abandoning it altogether though I don't see them doing that.

It's not an easy position if suspension below league level isn't lifted for another couple of months. I don't favour option 3 (or 4). I suspect we'll end up with them doing what they can to get a couple more rounds at least played after Easter.

I agree with you on options 3 and 4, but it probably is worth pointing out that they ended up doing option 3 in the Netherlands this season. I think the best solution is option 2, to restart the competition as soon as the lower leagues get going and try to play the ties in quick succession - maybe batter through three rounds in a week and a half or something like that. Require the non-league sides to test in order to participate (you'd assume prize money will more than cover that), and because it's over a short period of time they'd maybe only have to test a couple of times even if they made it all the way through to Round 5.

They can then play the last three rounds more or less as scheduled, and this will most likely only affect the clubs in the top two tiers who are still playing now anyway.

[The Moonster]

14 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I agree with you on options 3 and 4, but it probably is worth pointing out that they ended up doing option 3 in the Netherlands this season. I think the best solution is option 2, to restart the competition as soon as the lower leagues get going and try to play the ties in quick succession - maybe batter through three rounds in a week and a half or something like that. Require the non-league sides to test in order to participate (you'd assume prize money will more than cover that), and because it's over a short period of time they'd maybe only have to test a couple of times even if they made it all the way through to Round 5.

They can then play the last three rounds more or less as scheduled, and this will most likely only affect the clubs in the top two tiers who are still playing now anyway.

Do you know how that's been received in the Netherlands? Can't say I'd be too happy if my club were punted out the cup and just handed some money for their troubles. I realise Dumbarton get punted out the cup and handed money for it every season but at least that's because our performance has merited it.

[bairn88]

Anyone know the rules on transfer window extensions? It’s clear most clubs have (rightly) shut up shop and not done any business.

Say it is agreed players can train from mid feb and games from March, is it as easy as SFA/Spfl saying ok you have another month, and that’s that? Or will it be a very contentious issue? 

[pleslie99]

22 minutes ago, bairn88 said:

Anyone know the rules on transfer window extensions? It’s clear most clubs have (rightly) shut up shop and not done any business.

Say it is agreed players can train from mid feb and games from March, is it as easy as SFA/Spfl saying ok you have another month, and that’s that? Or will it be a very contentious issue? 

Pretty sure transfer windows won't and can't be extended. However for lower league clubs is it that much of an issue? We have an extended period where we can sign loan players, and free agents (as long as released prior to 31st Jan) will be fair game. Considering those deals make up 99% (not been factually checked) i don't think the transfer window will be that much of an issue. I cant see Dumbarton being raging that the game was shut down in the transfer window therefore stopping them forking out a few hundred grand for a rivals player! 

[craigkillie]

29 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Do you know how that's been received in the Netherlands? Can't say I'd be too happy if my club were punted out the cup and just handed some money for their troubles. I realise Dumbarton get punted out the cup and handed money for it every season but at least that's because our performance has merited it.

No idea, only realised it was the case when I saw on my LiveScores app that every single game was postponed, and looked into it further.

[The Moonster]

37 minutes ago, bairn88 said:

Anyone know the rules on transfer window extensions? It’s clear most clubs have (rightly) shut up shop and not done any business.

Say it is agreed players can train from mid feb and games from March, is it as easy as SFA/Spfl saying ok you have another month, and that’s that? Or will it be a very contentious issue? 

I trust Jan on these matters...

28 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

An extension to the loan window would certainly be possible I'd imagine. Like in the season where we signed Dom Thomas in October, but the loan window shut in September for Championship sides. 

Given most sides at this level won't be signing players for a fee, then an extension to the loan window combined with the ability to register free agents would likely be all that would be needed. 

Edit: Looks like loan deals can still happen in February anyway.

Clicky

 

[jagsfan57]

Well it was the SFA themselves, whilst the Govt via the Health Minister were involved in the discussion, it wasn't a Govt decision and the Govt exemption for "elite" leagues to take play subject to protocols is still in place.
And yes, quite obviously they do. It's an overall encompassing authority, it's not limited to any particular league.

Ok. So this prompts a couple more thoughts.
Was the offer by the SFA to suspend all leagues below men’s Premiership and Championship solely based on the fact that these 2 leagues are predominantly full time or coincidentally are the two leagues that have tv funding. (Not sure if women’s game has any tv funding).

[Skyline Drifter]

21 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

 

Ok. So this prompts a couple more thoughts.
Was the offer by the SFA to suspend all leagues below men’s Premiership and Championship solely based on the fact that these 2 leagues are predominantly full time or coincidentally are the two leagues that have tv funding. (Not sure if women’s game has any tv funding).

I've no idea where you are going with this. There wasn't an "offer", there was a decision / decree. Who are you thinking they made "an offer" to? The Govt? I've no idea what the conversation was. I've no idea if Neil Doncaster argued vehemently against it or agreed entirely. Nobody who wasn't in the meeting will do.

The SFA are in charge of deciding to what extent football can be played at the moment though subject to the guidelines of the Govt exemption for "elite" football or any age restrictions. The Government could of course over-ride them but haven't done so formally. Whether they made suggestions or argued for restrictions I've no idea. I do know that most of the teams below SPFL level were already called FOR football to be suspended.. Those for whom football is effectively a hobby weren't happy at being asked to play football and jeopardise their families / other work, etc. I'm unsure what the general opinion of Highland League clubs was but they had only just started their leagues. South of Scotland clubs were pretty much unanimously voting to cease and certainly at Lowland level some clubs had made it clear they didn't want to play on. The SFA already made it quite clear in their public statement that the decision to include the two lower SPFL leagues was made on the basis that those league were majority part time and the two above predominantly are not. You can see a tv money decision in there if you want but given the buttons the BBC pay for the Championship coverage I doubt that was a factor. It would certainly be relevant to the Premiership I expect but not to the Championship and yet the Championship is still playing. That might be because nobody has the stomach for another toys out of the pram dispute with Hearts but it's far more likely to be as they said because the clubs are majority full time and can afford the testing regime for the foreseeable future thanks to the Govt grants they just received.

I'd imagine any tv funding the women's game gets is pretty miniscule..

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, bairn88 said:

Anyone know the rules on transfer window extensions? It’s clear most clubs have (rightly) shut up shop and not done any business.

Say it is agreed players can train from mid feb and games from March, is it as easy as SFA/Spfl saying ok you have another month, and that’s that? Or will it be a very contentious issue? 

SFA made some enquiries with FIFA and were told no extensions would be made. It's absolutely NOT an SFA decision. They'll have latitude to extend the loan window I imagine but not the registrations one.