New clubs in the West of Scotland

[Marshmallo]

6 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Capping the league is giving off a real "closed shop" vibe, which is not really a great look when you're accusing the Lowland League of similar.

In fairness they aren't necessarily closing off if they open up to another organisation at the bottom. Eighty teams may be the most they can accommodate from an administrative perspective, or it could make cup competitions unworkable.

[LongTimeLurker]

16 × 5 = 80

[LongTimeLurker]

9 hours ago, theesel1994 said:

I've heard the following clubs have applied for next season:

Blantyre Soccer Academy
Easterhouse
Eglinton
Rossvale Academy
Thorn Athletic
Threave Rovers
West Park United

Also a couple of other interesting things.

Possible rule changes.....
Clubs promoted to the Premier have five years in which to get Licenced, if not they are relegated.
League membership to be capped at 80 clubs.

Thorn Athletic appear to be from Johnstone:

https://www.thornathletic.com/

and West Park United from Bishopbriggs:

https://westparkunited.co.uk/

Would Eglinton be from Kilwinning?

[Kennie]

7 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Capping the league is giving off a real "closed shop" vibe, which is not really a great look when you're accusing the Lowland League of similar.

If we go with the number 80, that gives us 5 Divisions with 16 teams in each.

If we were to leave our entry door open we could take, probably, up to 4 more.

The bottom Division might be able to cope with up to 20 teams  but what happens if we go above that?

Form a Division with 5 teams?

[LongTimeLurker]

You could always do conferences with the bottom tier.

[FairWeatherFan]

74 in the WoSFL set up just now. Albeit not all full members. That's a list of 7 applicants. While I agree that the numbers become unworkable at a certain point.

There's going to have to be some serious thought to what goes on below. As simply setting a membership quota isn't going to be good enough. Since we know there's the Annbank's and Westerton United plus any number of other ams/youth clubs out there that might fancy their chances one day.

[Dev]

2 hours ago, Kennie said:

If we go with the number 80, that gives us 5 Divisions with 16 teams in each.

If we were to leave our entry door open we could take, probably, up to 4 more.

The bottom Division might be able to cope with up to 20 teams  but what happens if we go above that?

Form a Division with 5 teams?

Kennie is right. It is wise to set limits for the numbers in the league.

However, maybe a look at the potential movements not just up from the league but also down into it from above over the next ten years would be a good place to go next.

Follow that by a set maximum number of relegation places from the bottom division each season and direct promotion links (subject to meeting criteria) with the amateur leagues beneath. Maybe play-offs if there are too many applicants from below in any one season.

It is also possible that a WoS area club is relegated from the Lowland League with no WoS club being promoted - so extra relegation places would have to be provided for when this happens.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Dev
.

[Dev]

11 hours ago, theesel1994 said:

I've heard the following clubs have applied for next season:

Blantyre Soccer Academy
Easterhouse
Eglinton
Rossvale Academy
Thorn Athletic
Threave Rovers
West Park United

Also a couple of other interesting things.

Possible rule changes.....
Clubs promoted to the Premier have five years in which to get Licenced, if not they are relegated.
League membership to be capped at 80 clubs.

If the WoS sets a max number of clubs, say 80, then taking in Threave when they already have a place in a current Tier 6 league would  set the other SoS clubs adrift and also tell amateur clubs from within the current WoS area that there's no room for them as a SoS club is a greater priority. Hm! Not a good move. 

The WoS either takes in all SoS clubs which want to move or none at all - unless they are already within the WoS patch and wish to move side-ways in the pyramid (Caledonian Braves Res).

The other alternative - and NOT a recommendation at all - is to re-divide the WoS and SoS clubs, sending all Ayrshire clubs Due South. This would greatly improve the strength of the SoS (obviously) and get more current WoS clubs a bite at the Play-Offs for the Lowland League. If the numbers of promotion places to the LL were to increase e.g. Champions from each of W/E/S moving up each season then the quality of the LL would increase more quickly (again obviously). Promotion links to the Amateur leagues would be improved too with greater opportunities for the current WoS area leagues as Ayrshire Amats would feed the South League.

Anyway it's food for thought or binning!

[sdr71]

OK.  Suppose you have a full membership of 80 clubs, the EoS team wins the playoff and Caley Braves are relegated to the WoS.  What happens then, do you kick out an existing member in good standing?

[glensmad]

OK.  Suppose you have a full membership of 80 clubs, the EoS team wins the playoff and Caley Braves are relegated to the WoS.  What happens then, do you kick out an existing member in good standing?

No.

[Glenconner]

As it stands East Kilbride, Cumbernauld Colts, Caledonian Braves and depending where they hang their hat, BSC Glasgow (Alloa branch) could come down from the LL.

Then it's the likes of Albion Rovers etc further up the leagues.

It only takes two bad seasons and Albion Rovers could be playing in the WoSFL.

A standing half serious/half joke on here was Rutherglen Glencairn playing Clyde in a league game.

Think the Glencairn rep on here took exception to Clyde being a Rutherglen club at heart. He made a good case of Clyde leaving a generation ago and Cumbernauld now being home territory and the catchment area for any support.

In what seemed a matter of days that changed again.

Cumbernauld no more, hello Hamilton.

Do the Cumbernauld based Clyde fans make the trip to Hamilton.

Who knows.

What's for sure the joke about Rutherglen Glencairn v Clyde looks a lot more possible going forward.

I'll take a guess at least a couple present day well known clubs in the SPFL will play in the WoSFL within the next ten years.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Glenconner

[cmontheloknow]

The West of Scotland League and South of Scotland League (for all its history) might be better off being under one roof - also simplifies the play off. This isn't new thinking but some sort of regionalisation of the very bottom tier(s) would allow for that. St Cuthbert - who already use Lanarkshire-based players - and Threave on field are roughly on a par with those clubs in the new Division One and could work their way up over a few years, the others more comfortable at the level of Lanark/Lugar etc.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said:

The West of Scotland League and South of Scotland League (for all its history) might be better off being under one roof - also simplifies the play off. This isn't new thinking but some sort of regionalisation of the very bottom tier(s) would allow for that. St Cuthbert - who already use Lanarkshire-based players - and Threave on field are roughly on a par with those clubs in the new Division One and could work their way up over a few years, the others more comfortable at the level of Lanark/Lugar etc.

Threave Rovers get accepted it will sort itself out over time. And there's no reason they shouldn't. Fully licenced member of the SFA with no agreement between the leagues as it only looked like WoS/EoS did that. Clubs like Threave & St Cuthberts would probably do no worse than a Girvan/Kello Rovers.

 

[Dev]

If the WoS and the SoS were to merge there would be more than 80 teams. Some regionalisation would be needed at the bottom too even though 10 of the 13 SoS teams play on floodlit grounds. There needs to be regionalisation as the whole area covered could deter a number of existing WoS clubs, let alone some in the SoS.

The other thing is where would clubs start up in the south. There's no Saturday league left in the area.

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Dev said:

If the WoS and the SoS were to merge there would be more than 80 teams. Some regionalisation would be needed at the bottom too even though 10 of the 13 SoS teams play on floodlit grounds. There needs to be regionalisation as the whole area covered could deter a number of existing WoS clubs, let alone some in the SoS.

The other thing is where would clubs start up in the south. There's no Saturday league left in the area.

They don't need to merge. Most of the clubs in the South wouldn't want that. It basically became the safe haven for last of the Dumfries amateur league when it collapsed.

If Division 4 could take on a quasi status within the WoSFL with no set promotion/relegation. I don't see why the South couldn't take on an associated league status or something similar. Creating a potential framework with what could happen with other amateur leagues.

[Glenconner]

On 29/04/2022 at 23:28, theesel1994 said:

I've heard the following clubs have applied for next season:

Blantyre Soccer Academy
Easterhouse
Eglinton
Rossvale Academy
Thorn Athletic
Threave Rovers
West Park United

Also a couple of other interesting things.

Possible rule changes.....
Clubs promoted to the Premier have five years in which to get Licenced, if not they are relegated.
League membership to be capped at 80 clubs.

Rossvale Academy???

Tell me this ain't another version of the Broomhill/BSC (Alloa) scenario.

So there's going to be 3 teams from Bishopbriggs and none of the 3 of them have a home ground to play in.

Don't fancy being the blazers trying to sort 6 new applications every season and half of them are doublers.

Fell out with your local cub?

Let's go down the road and start a new one.

Maybe I'm being unfair and what we are seeing is a new dawn in Scottish football.

Wasn't that long ago there was 5 or 6 Junior teams all within a couple of miles of each other in Glasgow. plus two Senior teams.

And even an amateur team that played in the big Scottish Cup.

All around at the same time.

[ibenji]

2 hours ago, Glenconner said:

Rossvale Academy???

Tell me this ain't another version of the Broomhill/BSC (Alloa) scenario.

So there's going to be 3 teams from Bishopbriggs and none of the 3 of them have a home ground to play in.

 

Pretty sure this is another broomhill/bsc think the current Rossvale mob are talking of renaming if Rossvale Academy end up in the WoSFL 

[Ginaro]

On 29/04/2022 at 23:28, theesel1994 said:

Blantyre Soccer Academy
Easterhouse
Eglinton
Rossvale Academy
Thorn Athletic
West Park United

Possible rule changes.....
Clubs promoted to the Premier have five years in which to get Licenced, if not they are relegated.

Do all of these clubs already play in the amateur leagues?

Where is the push for getting the Premier licensed coming from - the clubs or the WOS board? Not really sure it is necessary - the EOS has got all bar two of its Premier clubs licensed without mandating it, because the benefits are enough on their own. I could maybe see some stricter requirements (cover, lights?) but surely semi-national LL level is where the cutoff should be for licensing.

And although 8/16 are looking to be licensed for next season, the WOS will likely be losing clubs on net to the LL over 5 years so they'll need more than just 8 new clubs getting licensed.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Ginaro

[LongTimeLurker]

15 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Do all of these clubs already play in the amateur leagues?

Where is the push for getting the Premier licensed coming from - the clubs or the WOS board? Not really sure it is necessary - the EOS has got all bar one of its Premier clubs licensed without mandating it, because the benefits are enough on their own. I could maybe see some stricter requirements (cover, lights?) but surely semi-national LL level is where the cutoff should be for licensing...

Maybe they could campaign to be bumped up to tier 5 if all the Premier clubs become licensed? A north-east-west split would make more sense in population terms. Might be a long shot in blazer politics terms but no harm trying to put issues like that on the agenda. Not so long ago relegation out of the SFL was regarded as lunatic fringe stuff by a lot of people.

[theesel1994]

17 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Do all of these clubs already play in the amateur leagues?

Where is the push for getting the Premier licensed coming from - the clubs or the WOS board? Not really sure it is necessary - the EOS has got all bar one of its Premier clubs licensed without mandating it, because the benefits are enough on their own. I could maybe see some stricter requirements (cover, lights?) but surely semi-national LL level is where the cutoff should be for licensing.

And although 8/16 are looking to be licensed for next season, the WOS will likely be losing clubs on net to the LL over 5 years so they'll need more than just 8 new clubs getting licensed.

The only ones I had heard of were Threave Rovers and Thorn Athletic. There was an Ayrshire Amateur team called Eglinton that had previously won the Scottish Amateur Cup but I don't they exist any more.

I don't know where the push is coming from - but don't assume the West champions will automatically win the play-off. It is likely (in my opinion) in Darvel and Talbot's case but after that not so sure.

I suppose I can understand it - they expect clubs to be committed to a pyramid system and that means being licenced so they can take part in play-off.