New clubs in the West of Scotland

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, PossilYM said:

Come back in 20 years and I'll let you know.

Cop out man.

[Burnieman]

5 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

The case in point shows the law is an ass. 900 at Pollok is mental. Everyone knows that. 

I wouldn't know, I'm not an expert in Sports Ground Safety and I've never been to Pollok.  Sounds like they have some issues with the state of their ground that need fixed to increase their capacity safely.

[Thejackdaw]

27 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

I wouldn't know, I'm not an expert in Sports Ground Safety and I've never been to Pollok.  Sounds like they have some issues with the state of their ground that need fixed to increase their capacity safely.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with polloks ground it could and should host a good few thousand like it has been able to in most of its history . 

[PossilYM]

35 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

I wouldn't know, I'm not an expert in Sports Ground Safety and I've never been to Pollok.  Sounds like they have some issues with the state of their ground that need fixed to increase their capacity safely.

What the script with this Conference League my East of Scotland friend, is it happening or not?

[Burnieman]

40 minutes ago, Thejackdaw said:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with polloks ground it could and should host a good few thousand like it has been able to in most of its history . 

The local authority disagrees, and I think history tells you that football has played hard and fast with safety.

[Thejackdaw]

10 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

The local authority disagrees, and I think history tells you that football has played hard and fast with safety.

I would maybe put another slant on it and say that health and safety has gone mad and people are getting soft these days .

Edited May 24, 2023 by Thejackdaw

[PossilYM]

16 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Do you mean Cambuslang? What's wrong their park?

 

Went there a few times this season to see the big guns in the Wosfl.

Maybe wrong choice considering what happened in the Main St.

Old Junior club with exactly what you'd expect from an old fashioned Junior ground.

Good 10 step terracing on the far side with a full length shed. Obviously the shed has took a battering over the winter going by the corrugated iron missing from the roof. Looks as though money's been spent on the bar and outside decking area.

One thing i have noticed since the last of the old school committee quit or left or died pre Covid.

The pensioner crowd you see at your average ex Junior is completely absent.

Not quite sure if the younger crowd hanging around the decking are football fans as such.

They certainly don't seem too bothered when Cambuslang score.

You can make of that what you will.

[Dev]

5 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

Is that really the situation you find yourselves in? Rather than attendances increasing, clubs are now having to think about limiting capacities. The pyramid gets better all the time eh?

??

I guess I could have used other examples such as Talbot home games against bigger opposition. Apologies.

[jimbaxters]

22 minutes ago, Dev said:

??

I guess I could have used other examples such as Talbot home games against bigger opposition. Apologies.

I was referring to the prospect of normal league games being ticketed due to restricted access.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, Thejackdaw said:

I would maybe put another slant on it and say that health and safety has gone mad and people are getting soft these days .

OK....

[Dunfermline Jag]

14 hours ago, Burnieman said:

The EoS are now a lot more stringent when it comes to new applicants and their facilities, from what I can gather it loosely mirrors what an SFA licence would demand with regards to dressing room/referee facilities, perimeter fencing, toilet facilities, catering etc.   A 3g cage is getting nowhere near membership, which puzzles me when it comes to Rosyth's intended move to one.

They're also getting a bit tougher on existing members, hence why Rosyth's position is precarious, and Peebles are apparently faced with a move.  Stirling Uni Reserves must also be under a bit of pressure, their facilities are basic in the extreme.     

Not sure the EoS's view  when it comes to ground sharing, particularly on non-3g pitches eg Edinburgh South.

I find Rosyth's position very confusing. They know what the EOS requires and the need for a compliant ground was being talked about with Fife Council years ago. Surely they wouldn't have agreed to the current plans without checking with the league? However, the new ground doesn't appear to comply with the requirements so have the league signed off on it?

The problem with established clubs (and Rosyth are an established club albeit only recently in to the EOS league) is what you do if this is the best they can get, through no fault of their own, particularly if did have a compliant ground until they were forced out. There is no Junior league to go to, there is just the pyramid. Are you really going to force them to fold if they don't meet all of the ground requirements?

[Burnieman]

3 minutes ago, Dunfermline Jag said:

I find Rosyth's position very confusing. They know what the EOS requires and the need for a compliant ground was being talked about with Fife Council years ago. Surely they wouldn't have agreed to the current plans without checking with the league? However, the new ground doesn't appear to comply with the requirements so have the league signed off on it?

The problem with established clubs (and Rosyth are an established club albeit only recently in to the EOS league) is what you do if this is the best they can get, through no fault of their own, particularly if did have a compliant ground until they were forced out. There is no Junior league to go to, there is just the pyramid. Are you really going to force them to fold if they don't meet all of the ground requirements?

No idea really as there is no precedent for this, but this is where having graded ground requirements would be handy so if you didn't meet them for the division you're in, you're relegated.

Regarding cages, Heriot Watt Uni isn't a cage as such with two seated stands, albeit you can only watch from one side.  There is no facilities at all once you're in (toilets or catering) and the pitchside barrier stops short of the stands, you can get up out of your seat and walk onto the pitch, there is no barrier to stop you.  That isn't meeting EoS requirements either.

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, Burnieman said:

The local authority disagrees, and I think history tells you that football has played hard and fast with safety.

And history also tells you that local authorities play hard and fast with common sense.

[Burnieman]

4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

And history also tells you that local authorities play hard and fast with common sense.

LA's will follow the Green Guide/Sports Ground Safety guide regardless of club, they're hardly going to play hard and fast with that and risk an incident, they'll always err on the side of caution.

Let's face it, old Junior clubs treated facilities as an afterthought, clubs spending big money on players whilst fans had to pish against a wall or negotiate crumbling terracing.  They're now playing catch up.

Lack of turnstiles and exit gates are one of the main issues with setting capacities, as is what you're expected to stand on, with grass banks presenting a problem, as does crumbling boundary walls.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

7 hours ago, HorseyGhirl said:

I attend with a wheelchair user; Bonnyton  for one had excellent disabled facilities. Yes others I have visited have not. Same with some traditional grounds some excellent, some ok, some that are absolutely horrific when  pushing a wheelchair.

Point I'm making is, as with all venues in life for disabilities, we can't make general statements.

Yes you can, in general most of the non terraced sports centre type grounds are awful for all fans but even worse for disabled supporters, Bonnyton il grant you is alright but they are an exception rather than a rule. Clubs shouldnt be admitted at any level without reasonable viewing area for disabled spectators.

[Dev]

4 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

I was referring to the prospect of normal league games being ticketed due to restricted access.

But the same duty of care applies whether it's a league or cup match.

[Spyro]

I think the main problem with Pollok was the Entry/Exit situation. There’s only 2 wee holes in the wall for the turnstiles at the opposite end of the ground from the main terracing with little space to move behind the goals towards said exit… so in an emergency, it’s going to be a bit tight. I do agree that 900 is a bit low but I can see why after seeing the ground with 700odd inside

[Plantar fasciitis]

4 hours ago, PossilYM said:

Went there a few times this season to see the big guns in the Wosfl.

Maybe wrong choice considering what happened in the Main St.

Old Junior club with exactly what you'd expect from an old fashioned Junior ground.

Good 10 step terracing on the far side with a full length shed. Obviously the shed has took a battering over the winter going by the corrugated iron missing from the roof. Looks as though money's been spent on the bar and outside decking area.

One thing i have noticed since the last of the old school committee quit or left or died pre Covid.

The pensioner crowd you see at your average ex Junior is completely absent.

Not quite sure if the younger crowd hanging around the decking are football fans as such.

They certainly don't seem too bothered when Cambuslang score.

You can make of that what you will.

The bar has nothing to do with the club, that was the old social club that was sold off a number of years ago .

[Burnieman]

6 minutes ago, Spyro said:

I think the main problem with Pollok was the Entry/Exit situation. There’s only 2 wee holes in the wall for the turnstiles at the opposite end of the ground from the main terracing with little space to move behind the goals towards said exit… so in an emergency, it’s going to be a bit tight. I do agree that 900 is a bit low but I can see why after seeing the ground with 700odd inside

There's a whole section in the Green Guide on calculating capacity, and some of the points considered are the entry capacity in one hour and the exit capacity under normal and emergency situations.

So the LA work out how many people can safely enter via one turnstile in a one hour period (and I've seen 600 mentioned), so if you only have two turnstiles/entrances then you're immediately looking at 1,200 max, that will then be reduced by various factors, exits, terracing, grass banking etc etc etc.

I guess for one-off cup games, clubs can potentially increase capacities by opening extra entry/exit points in agreement with the LA.

The SFA know the LA's will follow the Green Guide, hence why they ask for capacities to be confirmed annually by them if you're wanting a licence.

There's a process behind it, and for good reasons.

 

[Spyro]

As much as I would love “the good old days” and being in the middle of a 4000 crowd inside there for a big game, it would only take 1 problem where someone gets hurt and everyone will be screaming from the rooftops about safety.

Hopefully they can get it sorted so they can increase the capacity as the ground itself is more than capable of handling a couple of 1000 or so