How Do We Solve a Problem Like Obesity?

[TheScarf]

That's where that America's Biggest Loser fails miserably as @ICTChristalked about.

Obese whales going from 5000 calories a day to 1800 is absolutely useless.  It's just a competition to see who can lose the most weight in a set number of days.  These folk should be having a gradual calorie intake decline over months and years, so that they learn about how to manage their weight, and their body learns over time to adjust to the calories it's getting.

You always see these follow up shows and the vast majority have put all the weight back on, some even bigger than before.

[Donathan]

The fizzy drink thing is odd; I've seen/heard countless people say that diet drinks stop people from losing weight, but they never give a reason how that's possible. I don't know how it stands up to basic scrutiny that consuming something with next to no calories will keep you fat.

Diet drinks absolutely hump your metabolism. So they don’t directly lead to weight gain as they are not in themselves calorific, however if you regularly drink diet drinks and you will gain weight unless you reduce your calorie intake, because your basic metabolic rate will go down.

[ICTChris]

That's where that America's Biggest Loser fails miserably as [mention=198]ICTChris[/mention]talked about.
Obese whales going from 5000 calories a day to 1800 is absolutely useless.  It's just a competition to see who can lose the most weight in a set number of days.  These folk should be having a gradual calorie intake decline over months and years, so that they learn about how to manage their weight, and their body learns over time to adjust to the calories it's getting.
You always see these follow up shows and the vast majority have put all the weight back on, some even bigger than before.

I’ll have to look up the study but it found some specific things about the people who lost all the weight. They literally burned far fewer calories after losing the weight so if they ate an average amount they put weight back on. Some of them had to eat well below the level of calories you’d expect to be maintenance for someone of their new weight.

[ICTChris]

Here’s a NYT report on the study.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html

One guy lost 239lbs (17 stone in old money) and now burns 800 calories a day less than you’d expect for a man of his size now.

[ayrmad]

10 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Here’s a NYT report on the study.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html

One guy lost 239lbs (17 stone in old money) and now burns 800 calories a day less than you’d expect for a man of his size now.

I can accept that, whenever I've looked to lose weight I'd eat 1200/1400 calories a day and even with exercise the weight loss slows to halt fairly quickly. 

[vikingTON]

16 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Diet drinks absolutely hump your metabolism. So they don’t directly lead to weight gain as they are not in themselves calorific, however if you regularly drink diet drinks and you will gain weight unless you reduce your calorie intake, because your basic metabolic rate will go down.

 

 

That's just not true. The amount of people who make wild claims about 'metabolism' when its only a minor variable to an underlying process of input = output is pretty wild. 

[Robin.Hood]

1 hour ago, Aufc said:

I take my hat off to anyone that has lost a significant amount of weight.

 

I don't. In work we do a lot of these slimming down challenges and eating healthy etc. Yet they don't do anything about gaining weight  and yes I struggle to gain weight. When I'm ill ( not often ) I struggle to put the weight I put back on.

Anyway the amount of people I know do these weight " challenges " and then yup weight goes straight back on.

 

[Donathan]

That's just not true. The amount of people who make wild claims about 'metabolism' when its only a minor variable to an underlying process of input = output is pretty wild. 

Minor variable [emoji23][emoji23]


A calorie deficit will make you lose weight and surplus will gain weight. If you perfectly match your calories burned then you’ll maintain your weight.


Clearly consuming an abundance of diet fizzy drinks which prevent you burning calories will therefore lead to weight gain.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I was generally pretty overweight through my teens and twenties. Into my early thirties I topped the scales at a horrific 23st (I'm 5'11"). Although there were a few factors that contributed, the two massively overriding ones were eating far too much unhealthy shite and not exercising. I started playing golf, then fives and ate better and by 35y/o I was generally hovering around 13-13.5St consistently. Within the last 4-5 years that crept up to 14-14.5 probably because I thought that doing a lot of biking and hillwalking meant I could eat a bit more. 

When lockdown started last year, my local gym went online and ran a few challenges, one of which was weight loss. Rather than crash-diet, I chose to make 3 minor changes i thought i could sustain long term. I kept my exercise largely the same and lost 2st in 3 months. My fitness levels at 47yo are better than they've ever been. The main changes i made were:

• Binning Coke zero (made me feel bloated as f**k)
• Swapped out breakfast cereal and toast for 200g mixed fruit and 150g strawberry Skyr (which is a fucking lovely combo btw)
• Allowed myself one takeaway a month, rather than every Friday 

I was already cycling 100+ miles a week, plus hillwalks so the weight dropped off fairly easily. It's geek level stuff but i track calories with an app called MyFitnessPal which links with Polar and Strava. 

Going back to when I was obese, I wasn't obese because I was depressed, I was depressed because I was obese. I appreciate of course that's not going to be the same for everyone. I certainly don't think it's valid to state that depression doesn't cause obesity full stop. There are certain depression/anxiety meds that will cause considerable weight gain for a start. However my own experience was simply that my situation was because I ate too much shite and did f**k all exercise, which I suspect is the case for a significant majority of people who care classed as obese. 

There is certainly blame for food companies who relentlessly advertise junk food, however they only do this because human being arse fairly stupid arseholes who'll fall for it. 

I expect this thread will end up like the Covid-19 one where the vast majority adopt a viewpoint at either end of an extreme scale, when the truth probably lies somewhere in between. 

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

I put on a little bit of weight over lockdown, mainly as a result of there being no football and the gyms shut. Working from home was also another factor as I simply wasn’t moving as much overall. Probably went from my normal healthy weight of about 80kg to approx 90kg, which still isn’t too bad for someone 6’1ish. However I realised I had to do something when @jamamafegan ‘s mum commented at October time that I was looking plump. A low point for me. Now out running 4 times a week and cut down on the Nandos.

[Aufc]

I don't. In work we do a lot of these slimming down challenges and eating healthy etc. Yet they don't do anything about gaining weight  and yes I struggle to gain weight. When I'm ill ( not often ) I struggle to put the weight I put back on.
Anyway the amount of people I know do these weight " challenges " and then yup weight goes straight back on.
 

I suspect you struggle to put weight on because your are not eating enough and your diet is shite. I dont mean that in an offensive way.

[Robin.Hood]

1 minute ago, Aufc said:

 

I suspect you struggle to put weight on because your are not eating enough and your diet is shite. I dont mean that in an offensive way.

 

This is correct. I dont particularly like eating. If life let me just drink id be quite content. Diet never use to be bad but aye wouldn't mind being above 10 stone but 9 n half it is. 

 

[HibsFan]

24 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

However I realised I had to do something when @jamamafegan ‘s mum commented at October time that I was looking plump.

Partners can be so cruel, commiserations.

[vikingTON]

43 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

 

Minor variable


A calorie deficit will make you lose weight and surplus will gain weight. If you perfectly match your calories burned then you’ll maintain your weight.


Clearly consuming an abundance of diet fizzy drinks which prevent you burning calories will therefore lead to weight gain.

 

 

There's absolutely no evidence that diet drinks will 'prevent you from burning calories' though, the effects that you are claiming for the overall metabolism are wildly exaggerated. 

'Mah metabolism!11!!' is a defection shield in the vast majority of the cases, for those who simply cannot keep to a regular and realistic balance of input and output. 

[Aufc]

This is correct. I dont particularly like eating. If life let me just drink id be quite content. Diet never use to be bad but aye wouldn't mind being above 10 stone but 9 n half it is. 
 

Have you ever thought about making your own smoothies? With oats etc in it? You could easily make one with 1,000 calories in if you include peanut butter etc in it. Although you probably dont like peanut butter [emoji23]

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

That's just not true. The amount of people who make wild claims about 'metabolism' when its only a minor variable to an underlying process of input = output is pretty wild. 

It's not a minor variable, it's a very important variable and resting /base levels can vary wildly, by at least 20% and up to 30-40% between otherwise similar people and by far more with differing age, sex and bmis. 

That means that two people who are otherwise similar can eat exactly the same and one lose weight while the other gains. When i was a student my flatmate ate the same as me, which should have been enough to gain weight (lunchtime specials of a half pizza supper for £1 most day). He remained skinny as a rake despite topping up with those bodybuilder shakes. 

One factor that decreases base metabolism is body fat, so ironically a fat person can eat the same as or even a bit less than a slim person of the same weight and still put on more weight. 

It's not the only or main factor but it's a very important variable. 

[dorlomin]

I am not going to try to tackle all the misinformation and distortions but some very basic advice. Your diet should try to aim to be rich in protein and nutrient dense calorie poor veggies. Avoid heavily refined carbs when you can and stick with the healthy fats you get from eggs, fish and veggies. Try acquiring a taste for meals that are blander but full of protein and fibre. Spices are probably the single biggest thing you can get into help turning a meal of brown rice, chicken breast and mixed veggies to be more appetising. 

If you want to start losing weight do not worry about going crazy on calorie restrictions to begin with. Instead think about cutting out the snacks between meals, eating meals as regularly as you can (shift workers will struggle on this) and getting your sleep in order first. Set up a structure to your eating so your body is expecting food a certain times of the day only. 

Turning to a healthier diet, try one meal at a time. Swap out the sweet cereals for some oats and boiled eggs (for example). Then meal prep a healthy lunch for each day of the week on a Sunday and stick it in the fridge. Its not about losing the weight but building the habit of having healthy meals at regular times. 

Then when you have a good structured eating plan you can begin to get into calorie restriction. Exceeding 1kg of weight loss (roughly a deficit of 1000kcal per day) is not advised unless under medical supervision (this may happen if someone need urgent surgery and has to lose weight to go under aesthetic.)

Why these recommendations?

 Sleep is God Tier in terms of helping almost everything in your life. Getting more sleep allows you to exercise more self control and will reduce your hunger pangs. It also means you will have less cortisol in the system so the body will favour breaking fat for energy than muscle tissue. 

Protein is highly satiating and supports muscle growth. You want to lose fat and keep muscle. 

Fibre is satiating as a food, helps reduce insulin resistance and improves bowel function. 

Low calorie veggies are full of nutrients that you may be deficient in and help bulk up the meals. 

The body secrets ghrelin to prompt you to eat, this is what makes you hungry, but the more regularly you eat the more it will only produce it around that time of the day. 

This is all pretty bland and straightforward. But its really at the core of many of the fad diets you see, healthy fats, protein, veggies. 

The other thing you can really look at is gaining muscle. Half an hour a day of a decent resistance training program and you will gain kgs of muscle over a few months. This will raise your resting metabolism and reduce the amount of fat you need to lose for a set body weight. Try doing short intense cardio sessions to gain fitness and again improve metabolism. These are not easy, but underneath a lot of peoples problems with weight gain is that they cannot "lean into the discomfort", they cannot take a part of the day and be uncomfortable. If you always chose comfort your body will make you permanently uncomfortable. 

Steady state cardio can help you lose weight (there is a lot of bullshyte that it cant on the internet). But its a hard road to weight loss, takes a lot of running to burn off one mars bar. There is one form of low intensity cardio you can do long enough, with little joint damage to really really burn of weight: long distance cycling. But it will take time to build the muscle and the mental fortitude to do long distance bike rides weekly (good news if you do, you get too eat fucktonnes and lose weight. ) 

tldnr: eat healthy, at set times, lift weights. AND SLEEP. 

[vikingTON]

26 minutes ago, coprolite said:

It's not a minor variable, it's a very important variable and resting /base levels can vary wildly, by at least 20% and up to 30-40% between otherwise similar people and by far more with differing age, sex and bmis. 

A 20% difference in metabolic rate is fundamentally a minor variable. Stuffing your face with doughnuts or running 10km a day are major variables. 

A diet drink is therefore not going to 'prevent people from burning calories', not even remotely. Once again people look to metabolism as a crutch to deflect away from the fact that the input-output balance is well within the control of the overwhelming majority of people. If you have to eat more salads and fewer chips than someone else to achieve this then that's just tough.

Edited March 5, 2021 by vikingTON

[Honest_Man#1]

38 minutes ago, Aufc said:

 

Have you ever thought about making your own smoothies? With oats etc in it? You could easily make one with 1,000 calories in if you include peanut butter etc in it. Although you probably dont like peanut butter

 

I used to make shakes/smoothies with fruit, oats, peanut butter and protein powder when I was trying to bulk up, roughly 1100 calories a shake. 

They served the purpose but it was truly fucking miserable trying to eat more than your body wants, and they were the worst bit of it tbh.

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

A 20% difference in metabolic rate is fundamentally a minor variable. Stuffing your face with doughnuts or running 10km a day are major variables. 

A diet drink is therefore not going to 'prevent people from burning calories', not even remotely. Once again people look to metabolism as a crutch to deflect away from the fact that the input-output balance is well within the control of the overwhelming majority of people. If you have to eat more salads and fewer chips than someone else to achieve this then that's just tough.

The vast majority of People are somewhere in the middle between “stuffing their face with doughnuts” and running 10k a day.

If you’re used to being relatively inactive and eat say 2500 calories a day and are in balance at 30 and your metabolism drops by 10% over two decades (which is perfectly feasible) the with 250 calorie excess a day they’ll end up putting on about 3 stone a year. So many obese 50 year olds probably just haven’t adapted by cutting out a bar of chocolate and are obese because of a change in metabolism.

The above is not a personal excuse, I’m all feast or famine.

Sceptical of the diet drink thing myself.

Edited March 5, 2021 by coprolite
My arithmetic is miles off here. It’s about 1 1/2 stone a year