Simple vote: Do you think whoever ends up in 11th will win the playoff?

[Scotty Tunbridge]

2 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Dundee or either Fife team would win the playoff final if they could come up with two good performances in a row

You should look at a career in punditry with insight like that.

[RossBFaeDundee]

Just looking at the dates for the Premiership play-offs on https://spfl.co.uk/pages/key-dates, and it really only exacerbates how tough it'll be for the Championship sides who we have already established are not particularly good this season:

Premiership play-off Quarter-final:
1st Leg: 5th May, 2021.
2nd Leg: 9th May, 2021.

Semi-final:
1st Leg: 12th May, 2021.
2nd Leg: 15th May, 2021.

Final:
1st Leg: 19th May, 2021.
2nd Leg: 23th May, 2021.

If 2nd place gets to the final, they'll have to play 4 games in 11 days, which will be about as much as the Prem team plays with their last 2 post-split games. If 3rd or 4th place gets to the final, they'll need to play 6 games in 18 days, which sounds pretty rough.

On a completely different note, how many people thought Hamilton were capable of beating Hibs or Livi of beating Partick prior to them happening?

Edited March 22, 2021 by RossBFaeDundee

[Radford]

15 hours ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

I genuinely envisage it being like Brechin's promotion to the Championship in 2017. Cracking at the time, but a precursor to a miserable fall.

Hope not!

Dundee remind me of Saints under Billy Stark between 2002 and 2004. With the big name players (Donnelly, Bernard, Hartley, Vata, Paatelainen) and the habit of digging out a result when they really need it, which perversely brings no long-term benefit. 

I think the whole of Scottish football can see that McPake isn't going to take the club anywhere in the long-term but for whatever reason they stick with him. Stark was the same, Saints should have ditched him possibly 18 months even before they finally did.

You are left always feeling when the team get a good result it's down to the good players you have but the bad results are all on the manager. It can look harsh to outsiders but it was certainly what we had with Stark.

What percentage of the fanbase would you say are still behind him?

Edited March 22, 2021 by Radford

[Ric]

1 hour ago, Radford said:

I think the whole of Scottish football can see that McPake isn't going to take the club anywhere in the long-term but for whatever reason they stick with him.

He's had nigh on 2 years now, give or take a month or two. Granted he came in initially as interim and then the whole sorry saga of Covid, but during that time I honestly don't see him progressing Dundee. I'll admit I don't follow the club that closely, but from the outside it looked like Nelms was happy enough to see if McPake would flourish into a decent young manager and as that's failed to come to fruition they are now just throwing money at the situation.

McPake may yet end up a manager of some worth, but I don't see it being at Dundee.

 

Edit: Just had a look at Wiki and it seems his win ratio is at ~41%, that is actually pretty decent. Granted all that time has been against clubs with miniscule budgets and much poorer facilities, but on paper that's not terrible. A quick check on Neilson's record, it's fair to say Hearts and Dundee are the two largest clubs in that division by some margin, and it's at ~68% win ratio. So, yeah... comparisons...

Edited March 22, 2021 by Ric

[LiviLion]

8 hours ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

On a completely different note, how many people thought Hamilton were capable of beating Hibs or Livi of beating Partick prior to them happening?

Every year is the exact same chat tbf. The Championship is always the weakest it's ever been, and the team in 11th will always easily stay up. 

[btb]

2 hours ago, Radford said:

Dundee remind me of Saints under Billy Stark between 2002 and 2004. With the big name players (Donnelly, Bernard, Hartley, Vata, Paatelainen) and the habit of digging out a result when they really need it, which perversely brings no long-term benefit. 

I think the whole of Scottish football can see that McPake isn't going to take the club anywhere in the long-term but for whatever reason they stick with him. Stark was the same, Saints should have ditched him possibly 18 months even before they finally did.

You are left always feeling when the team get a good result it's down to the good players you have but the bad results are all on the manager. It can look harsh to outsiders but it was certainly what we had with Stark.

What percentage of the fanbase would you say are still behind him?

I can see your point on this but if you look on the Infowire Forum it shows that most managers don't even get the two years which I assume would be the length of their initial contract now. Also how many clubs come back up from the Championship at the first attempt, Dundee Utd. were clearly the strongest team in the division last season and Hearts this one. 

Having said all that ICTs decision to stick with John Robertson hasn't earned them a return to the top flight yet.

Anyway I've got my own sorrows to nurse at present...

Edited March 22, 2021 by btb

[TheScarf]

18 minutes ago, btb said:

I can see your point on this but if you look on the Infowire Forum it shows that most managers don't even get the two years which I assume would be the length of their initial contract now. Also how many clubs come back up from the Championship at the first attempt, Dundee Utd. were clearly the strongest team in the division last season and Hearts this one. 

Having said all that ICTs to stick with John Robertson hasn't earned them a return to the top flight yet.

Anyway I've got my own sorrows to nurse at present...

In the last 3 seasons we've had to deal with the far wealthier Ross County, Dundee United and Hearts.  The United season being curtailed with no chance of promotion for 2nd-4th in the league. I'd have had us with a good chance of promotion last season, we were on a good run when the season was stopped.

This is why clubs like The Caley, Dundee and Dunfermline can't have County coming down again, McGregor is showing no signs of reining it in.

[Alert Mongoose]

On 05/03/2021 at 22:40, DA Baracus said:

The Motherwell hiding of Sevco was absolutely glorious. The pumping they dished out at Ibrox was tremendous, but the game at Fir Park was legendary.

There were just so many elements and incidents that made it an utter classic and incredibly enjoyable, such as:

- Sevco getting a vastly reduced allocation and endlessly greeting bitterly about it

- Pearson absolutely snapping The Grass early on and totally getting away with it

- Sevco being denied what was almost certainly a penalty

- The first goal where Cammy Bell seemed to forget how gravity and hands worked

- The flagpole in the puss for The Grass

- Big deflection for the second

- The Grass giving away a penalty

- Tears in the away end

- Motherwell fans goading the Sevco mutants on the pitch at full time 

- Moshni booting Erwin up the arse, hooking him then getting a red card

- Two more post match red cards

- The loud home support's taunting of Sevco and their scum c**t fans throughout the game

Was it not McCullough and an umbrella or am I getting mixed up?

Edited March 22, 2021 by Alert Mongoose

[TheScarf]

Yeah it was McCulloch.

[Aladdin]

Think Ross County or Hamilton would prove to be the Championship team's best shot.  Kilmarnock seemed to have improved performances albeit its taken them some time to translate that to points on the board.

Still think the Championship team will fall short.

[RossBFaeDundee]

1 hour ago, Ric said:

t had a look at Wiki and it seems his win ratio is at ~41%, that is actually pretty decent. Granted all that time has been against clubs with miniscule budgets and much poorer facilities, but on paper that's not terrible. A quick check on Neilson's record, it's fair to say Hearts and Dundee are the two largest clubs in that division by some margin, and it's at ~68% win ratio. So, yeah... comparisons...

Compared to Dundee managers who have managed at least as many games as he has in this league only, it's not very flattering (he is well bottom with a ~39-40% win percentage, while Jocky Scott is 2nd worst with ~46-47%). I doubt we'll see that climb much, even with a 3rd season.

Simply put, it should be promotion from playoffs or bust for him. It won't be though.

[RossBFaeDundee]

3 hours ago, Radford said:

What percentage of the fanbase would you say are still behind him?

Couldn't tell you, but it can't be very much. It all would depend on the last result imo. Before Friday, I'd imagine most were wanting a sacking whereas now some will feel a bit more forgiveness and faith. I'm well past having any of that tbh, in full-on nihilist mode about the team just now.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

4 hours ago, LiviLion said:

Every year is the exact same chat tbf. The Championship is always the weakest it's ever been, and the team in 11th will always easily stay up. 

Tbf I think in the two times it has happened, 2018 Livi and 2014 Accies had "something about them" that was obvious even to outsiders and came up against Partick and Hibs teams that were some of the biggest shitebags the top flight has seen in decades. I don't really think there's any obvious parallels like that this year, though obviously I could be wrong.

[LIVIFOREVER]

4 hours ago, TheScarf said:

In the last 3 seasons we've had to deal with the far wealthier Ross County, Dundee United and Hearts.  The United season being curtailed with no chance of promotion for 2nd-4th in the league. I'd have had us with a good chance of promotion last season, we were on a good run when the season was stopped.

This is why clubs like The Caley, Dundee and Dunfermline can't have County coming down again, McGregor is showing no signs of reining it in.

Depends if they stick with Hughes to get them back up, and let him bring in some of his own players. 

[TheScarf]

4 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Depends if they stick with Hughes to get them back up, and let him bring in some of his own players. 

County seem to be fond of the 'chuck as much shite as possible at the wall and see what sticks'.  The size of their squads in the last few years is testament to that.  I think with a 30 man squad, even Hughes would be able to find a XI to win the Championship.

[RossBFaeDundee]

Had a quick look at the PPG of all the finalists from the Championship in play-off finals along with the 3 teams tied for the 2nd spot on points. As it stands, whoever it is will be the worst via PPG to make it to the final.

Playoff finalists PPG:

Falkirk (15/16) - 1.94
Rangers (14/15) - 1.86 (Finished in 3rd)
Hamilton Accies (13/14) - 1.86
Dundee United (18/19) - 1.81
Livingston (17/18) - 1.72
Dundee United (16/17) - 1.58 (Finished in 3rd)
Dunfermline Athletic (20/21) - 1.58
Raith Rovers (20/21) - 1.50 (Currently 2nd)
Dundee (20/21) - 1.50

Meanwhile, these are the PPGs of all teams who finished in 11th place (last season excluded) compared with the 3 favourites for finishing in the spot.

11th placers PPG:

Motherwell (14/15) - 0.95
Kilmarnock (15/16) - 0.95
Hibernian (13/14) - 0.92
Hamilton Accies (16/17) - 0.92
Ross County (20/21) - 0.88
Partick Thistle (17/18) - 0.87
Kilmarnock (20/21) - 0.85 (Currently 11th)
St Mirren (18/19) - 0.84
Hamilton Accies (20/21) - 0.82

Pretty basic way of looking at things, but it suggests that we could well see likely the worst team to qualify for the final via the Championship and possibly one of the worst to finish 11th in the Premiership. Almost evens it up imo... but still I'd say the Prem teams have the advantage in "quality".

[parsforlife]

4 hours ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Had a quick look at the PPG of all the finalists from the Championship in play-off finals along with the 3 teams tied for the 2nd spot on points. As it stands, whoever it is will be the worst via PPG to make it to the final.

Playoff finalists PPG:

Falkirk (15/16) - 1.94
Rangers (14/15) - 1.86 (Finished in 3rd)
Hamilton Accies (13/14) - 1.86
Dundee United (18/19) - 1.81
Livingston (17/18) - 1.72
Dundee United (16/17) - 1.58 (Finished in 3rd)
Dunfermline Athletic (20/21) - 1.58
Raith Rovers (20/21) - 1.50 (Currently 2nd)
Dundee (20/21) - 1.50

Meanwhile, these are the PPGs of all teams who finished in 11th place (last season excluded) compared with the 3 favourites for finishing in the spot.

11th placers PPG:

Motherwell (14/15) - 0.95
Kilmarnock (15/16) - 0.95
Hibernian (13/14) - 0.92
Hamilton Accies (16/17) - 0.92
Ross County (20/21) - 0.88
Partick Thistle (17/18) - 0.87
Kilmarnock (20/21) - 0.85 (Currently 11th)
St Mirren (18/19) - 0.84
Hamilton Accies (20/21) - 0.82

Pretty basic way of looking at things, but it suggests that we could well see likely the worst team to qualify for the final via the Championship and possibly one of the worst to finish 11th in the Premiership. Almost evens it up imo... but still I'd say the Prem teams have the advantage in "quality".

You would expect the ppg of premiership teams to be higher after the split, which would bring them closer to previous years.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Kilmarnock and Dundee are two teams that score freely and concede freely

This playoff final should be worth watching

[Junior_Arab]

1 hour ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Kilmarnock and Dundee are two teams that score freely and concede freely

This playoff final should be worth watching

Agree, and another similarity seems to be that both teams rely heavily on their (ex-Rangers) talismen. Saw the goals from the Dundee match and thought they had a real chance of coming up with Adam pulling the strings like that.
 

Then watched the Killie highlights and suddenly I fancy them with Lafferty playing like he did. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Junior_Arab

[eez-eh]

11 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Kilmarnock and Dundee are two teams that score freely and concede freely

This playoff final should be worth watching

Can’t wait for Sky to put it on Sky Sports 10 and have about 5 minutes of punditry either side of the games before showing an OF rerun.