Sarah Everard

[hk blues]

3 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Yeah, same as the Sarah Everard case, you can't help but feel queasy that certain cases (usually involving 'ideal' victims) get far more media attention than others.

The exact same circumstances replicated with any man, or a woman from an ethnic minority or poor background, would almost certainly not get the same attention. People cannot be naive on this surely?

I don't agree, it wouldn't be too difficult to find baffling disappearances of other people in the UK that haven't had anywhere near the same level of attention.

But, equally, the new Zealand earthquake in Christchurch would have received far more press coverage than comparable (or far worse) incidents in other parts of the world that are much closer to the UK.

No one individual is at fault for this, you can feel sorry for the people involved in these cases whilst also queasy that papers with middle class white female will sell more / garner more empathy than pretty much anyone else. And if you don't believe class is a factor, have a look at Maddie McCann Vs Shannon Matthews.

I distinctly remember another young girl going missing from the same area shortly after Maddie McCann but it was quickly dismissed as she was from the gypsy community and not of the same socio economic background as Maddie. No David Beckham appeal for her.

Keep calling it out, maybe eventually it will get better.

I guess P&B must be the epitome of white, middle-class UK then seeing as we have this topic and also a long-running one on Madeleine McCann. Who would have though it! 

[hk blues]

On 11/02/2023 at 23:19, V.Aye.R said:

Not at all, I've come to expect it. Mainly because most people in life are selfish cvnts. 

No, no you're right.  As individuals we really should be carrying the weight of all the problems in the world on our wee shoulders rather then focus on those we feel more related to. 

[Satoshi]

1 hour ago, hk blues said:

I guess P&B must be the epitome of white, middle-class UK then seeing as we have this topic and also a long-running one on Madeleine McCann. Who would have though it! 

This site will be mostly white, middle class, and British.

Similar demographic to Mumsnet, but just males rather than females (and they probably have fewer virgins).

[hk blues]

14 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

This site will be mostly white, middle class, and British.

Similar demographic to Mumsnet, but just males rather than females (and they probably have fewer virgins).

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at being called middle class.  

 

[highlandcowden]

9 hours ago, Satoshi said:

 

I distinctly remember another young girl going missing from the same area shortly after Maddie McCann but it was quickly dismissed as she was from the gypsy community and not of the same socio economic background as Maddie. No David Beckham appeal for her.

 

So was this gypsy lassie British?if she was,fair point.otherwise,why would the British media pay a huge amount of attention to a missing foreign national in aforeign country?did you follow the Portuguese media at the time&did they concentrate on "ideal" Maddy rather than the gypsy lass?

[hk blues]

25 minutes ago, highlandcowden said:

So was this gypsy lassie British?if she was,fair point.otherwise,why would the British media pay a huge amount of attention to a missing foreign national in aforeign country?did you follow the Portuguese media at the time&did they concentrate on "ideal" Maddy rather than the gypsy lass?

I'm not even sure if it's even  about that - the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance were more than unusual - disappearing without trace in a foreign country whilst her parents were guzzling wine with friends is surely a story and a half. 

I think folk are not seeing the wood for the trees here.

[highlandcowden]

3 hours ago, hk blues said:

I'm not even sure if it's even  about that - the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance were more than unusual - disappearing without trace in a foreign country whilst her parents were guzzling wine with friends is surely a story and a half. 

I think folk are not seeing the wood for the trees here.

Absolutely

Far from only being interested in Maddie because of her background,the media were delighted to stick it to the parents because of this

Edited February 13, 2023 by highlandcowden

[hk blues]

3 minutes ago, highlandcowden said:

Absolutely

Far from only being interested in Maddie because of her background,the media were delighted to stock it to the parents because of this

Yep...if anything the media were highly critical of her white, middle-class parents, and rightly so. 

[V.Aye.R]

10 hours ago, hk blues said:

you're right

Thanks. 

[MazzyStar]

On 10/02/2023 at 21:16, Loonytoons said:

You blaming Roger Waters?  Mazzy Star will be red dotting imminently.

Do you not know how to use the @ ?

 

[ICTChris]

Wayne Couzens has pleaded guilty to indecent exposure, two counts of which were at a drive through McDonalds.

[Loonytoons]

1 hour ago, MazzyStar said:

Do you not know how to use the @ ?

 

Aye.  Missed it by accident, went to add it on edit but it wouldn't take.  Apologies.

[Binos]

9 hours ago, highlandcowden said:

So was this gypsy lassie British?if she was,fair point.otherwise,why would the British media pay a huge amount of attention to a missing foreign national in aforeign country?did you follow the Portuguese media at the time&did they concentrate on "ideal" Maddy rather than the gypsy lass?

Don't mind him, he talks shite

[throbber]

6 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Wayne Couzens has pleaded guilty to indecent exposure, two counts of which were at a drive through McDonalds.

Including the one a few days before he went on to commit murder.

[Satoshi]

13 hours ago, highlandcowden said:

So was this gypsy lassie British?if she was,fair point.otherwise,why would the British media pay a huge amount of attention to a missing foreign national in aforeign country?did you follow the Portuguese media at the time&did they concentrate on "ideal" Maddy rather than the gypsy lass?

No, she wasn't. And the media around the world ignored her (Maddie got plenty of non British press attention).

Shannon Matthews was British, around the same time, and got far less media attention. And the reasons why are obvious, they relate to the background of the victim, not the particulars of the case.

It's something that happens so often, is clearly happening in this case, and needs to be called out each time.

13 hours ago, hk blues said:

I'm not even sure if it's even  about that - the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance were more than unusual - disappearing without trace in a foreign country whilst her parents were guzzling wine with friends is surely a story and a half. 

I think folk are not seeing the wood for the trees here.

You're trying to fit it post event, again it won't be too difficult to find similar (or even more interesting) cases that do not get anywhere near the same level of attention.

Maddie got attention because newspapers (probably rightly) cottoned on that her and her family will elicit more empathy / interest than other victims. A similar thing happened (around the same time I think) when the brother of a soap star was stabbed to death in London. It got far more attention than every other knife crime that year because he was wealthy and white. In the weeks after they even tried to cover other stabbings to create some thread narrative but it's obvious they cared far less about the mostly poor black kids that were getting stabbed.

12 hours ago, highlandcowden said:

Absolutely

Far from only being interested in Maddie because of her background,the media were delighted to stick it to the parents because of this

It's all part of the story, her disappearance got far more attention than any other missing child for decades.

Now, you can believe this is down to the particulars of the case, but that theory falls down when you look at how quick the media reaction was (before the particulars were known) and how it endures long afterwards.

There is a well known, and even well commented on, media bias with regards to certain victims who fit idealised views of class and ethnicity. It happened in that case, it's happened in others (including Sarah Everard), and it will keep happening. And it doesn't just apply to individual victims, we all know that natural disasters in the US, Australia or New Zealand will get far more attention / sympathy than a more serious incident closer to the UK in somewhere like North Africa or Turkey.

You can call it out without having a go at the victims, who are as blameless and uninvolved as any other victims.

[dundeefc1783]

Another thread ruined with his rambling shite. 

[hk blues]

5 hours ago, Satoshi said:

No, she wasn't. And the media around the world ignored her (Maddie got plenty of non British press attention).

Shannon Matthews was British, around the same time, and got far less media attention. And the reasons why are obvious, they relate to the background of the victim, not the particulars of the case.

It's something that happens so often, is clearly happening in this case, and needs to be called out each time.

You're trying to fit it post event, again it won't be too difficult to find similar (or even more interesting) cases that do not get anywhere near the same level of attention.

Maddie got attention because newspapers (probably rightly) cottoned on that her and her family will elicit more empathy / interest than other victims. A similar thing happened (around the same time I think) when the brother of a soap star was stabbed to death in London. It got far more attention than every other knife crime that year because he was wealthy and white. In the weeks after they even tried to cover other stabbings to create some thread narrative but it's obvious they cared far less about the mostly poor black kids that were getting stabbed.

It's all part of the story, her disappearance got far more attention than any other missing child for decades.

Now, you can believe this is down to the particulars of the case, but that theory falls down when you look at how quick the media reaction was (before the particulars were known) and how it endures long afterwards.

There is a well known, and even well commented on, media bias with regards to certain victims who fit idealised views of class and ethnicity. It happened in that case, it's happened in others (including Sarah Everard), and it will keep happening. And it doesn't just apply to individual victims, we all know that natural disasters in the US, Australia or New Zealand will get far more attention / sympathy than a more serious incident closer to the UK in somewhere like North Africa or Turkey.

You can call it out without having a go at the victims, who are as blameless and uninvolved as any other victims.

Basically, you're choosing to view every single example through your prejudice.  

If we take the soap star's brother example as a case in point (I've no recollection of the case) - your wild take is that the case attracted attention solely because he was white and wealthy and NOT because his sister was a soap star. As I said, a wild take. 

[Satoshi]

21 minutes ago, hk blues said:

Basically, you're choosing to view every single example through your prejudice.  

If we take the soap star's brother example as a case in point (I've no recollection of the case) - your wild take is that the case attracted attention solely because he was white and wealthy and NOT because his sister was a soap star. As I said, a wild take. 

Not at all, there is ample evidence and coverage on the phenomenon of the ideal victim and how it impacts media coverage. There are countless scholarly articles on it and clear evidence it has existed in many fields, throughout history.

Nobody thinks Rosa Parks was the first person to refuse to give up her seat on a bus during segregation, she was chosen to be the face of the moment because she was palatable than those who came before her.

That actually wasnt my take, he attracted extra attention because of all three factors. He wasn't a public figure at all, and his sister was a minor celebrity at best.

This isn't something that is confined to the UK, it exists throughout the world. If two people go missing in Vietnam, one is part of the wealthy and one is not - who gets more attention? The poor person would probably get zero attention.

The Wikipedia entry of missing people in Malaysia contains four pages of famous cases - two are white people (Jim Thomson the one I knew of) and the other two more recent are connected political cases.

You could have countless examples of this, your case will certainly get more attention if you are wealthy and white than if you are neither. It's a statement that surely cannot reasonably be disputed.

[hk blues]

5 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

That actually wasnt my take, he attracted extra attention because of all three factors. He wasn't a public figure at all, and his sister was a minor celebrity at best.

His public standing is of absolutely no relevance whatsoever.  Her celebrity standing is of little relevance either - just by virtue of being a celebrity of any kind is already enough to make her brother's killing newsworthy.  

You have absolutely no way of knowing what weighting the three factors you now mention had (you conveniently ignored the most relevant one 1st time around) on the newsworthiness of the story but I'd say the sister's 'fame' trumped the other two, and by some considerable distance.  In fact, I'd say his colour and wealth had zero influence on the story at all.

[Satoshi]

16 minutes ago, hk blues said:

His public standing is of absolutely no relevance whatsoever.  Her celebrity standing is of little relevance either - just by virtue of being a celebrity of any kind is already enough to make her brother's killing newsworthy.  

You have absolutely no way of knowing what weighting the three factors you now mention had (you conveniently ignored the most relevant one 1st time around) on the newsworthiness of the story but I'd say the sister's 'fame' trumped the other two, and by some considerable distance.  In fact, I'd say his colour and wealth had zero influence on the story at all.

Ignored it? I was the one who mentioned it!

But if you really want to think that wealth and ethnicity play no part whatsoever in publicity surrounding crimes then that's your prerogative. It would totally against vast swathes of available information, and an entire field of academic study, but that's fine you can believe what you want.

Ben Kinsella was the name of the teenager killed. He was the 17th teenage victim that year of being stabbed to death in London alone (he was killed in June). His death had more attention than every other stabbing death put together.

Would he have got the same attention if he was a poor black teenager whose sibling was a minor soap star / rapper? I'll let people judge for themselves, considering the vast amount of information available on the phenomenon of the ideal victim.

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Satoshi