Sarah Everard

[velo army]

47 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Is that a real thing?

Aye, a psychologist will then look at the body language of the husband/wife/mother/father etc and look for signs of deception.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

3 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

It's a strange one but I think the police are (quite rightly) withholding stuff they know, it's making them look silly a wee bit though.

Ive been involved in some incredibly complex missing person investigations, some involving working theories that people have gone into a river. The level of moonhowling from people who think watching a netflix documentary makes them a detective is unreal.
 

That diver guy they  allowed to search the river butting in with theories to undermine the police was also disgraceful grandstanding as he wont know what information the enquiry has. He is just one strand and wont even be in ‘gold’ meetings. Of course the police arent releasing every bit of information they have, I genuinely think if they had evidence of third party foul play and someone was at large they would do so to reassure the public. The senior investigating officer has to update a policy document with rationale for every single decision made, to allow them to be accountable and explain why they took each step. I think they’ve done a pretty poor job around their media strategy, including not getting diver guy to wind his neck in. 

These kind of investigations are massively complex after the initial stages, but involve technical data, intelligence work, detectives interviewing witnesses, they use people with ‘POLSA’ training which is world leading training based on search techniques and parameters. In similar investigations ive been straight onto coast guard etc mapping out tidal patterns, especially with the river clyde they can almost pin point (as long as the body hasnt sunk into a silt bank) based on tidal patterns where a body will be washed up. They will be using absolutely every single thing they can to identify what happened to the poor woman. Its natural for people to be curious and speculate about things, but people with absolutely no clue jumping in ‘aVe DeY lOoKeD aT cCtV’ is absolutely not helping any one here and often just upsets the family, because i can absolutely guarantee you they will be glued to social media. 

Not everything is an exact science, there are things including in data which cause anomalies, i remember one where enquiry and data pointed to a person being in place A but due to external factors they were found in place B, the factors around place B suggested they couldnt be there, but a very small part of around 1mtr squared, where they were found, related to the place A, when a single step each way didnt. I appreciate im probably being obscure here, its difficult to explain. But in essence you can have everything leading you one direction but the truth/outcome is different, thats why they will investigate every line, it uses a system similar to HOLMES called Mirsap, which allows for several lines of enquiry to be compartmentalised and worked on simultaneously. 
 

Saw one guy going ‘why didnt they get a dog there immediately’ and in most cases dogs are great, but their ability to track is eroded with time and environmental factors, they’ll find drugs or whatever in a car thats been left for a while, but they wont track a person in a walk way hours after that person has been there. Yes there are some specialist cadaver dogs and im not sure of the parameters around them but understand in a body of water its impossible. 

[ICTJohnboy]

5 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Saw one guy going ‘why didnt they get a dog there immediately’ and in most cases dogs are great, but their ability to track is eroded with time and environmental factors, they’ll find drugs or whatever in a car thats been left for a while, but they wont track a person in a walk way hours after that person has been there. Yes there are some specialist cadaver dogs and im not sure of the parameters around them but understand in a body of water its impossible. 

 

I had a dog once that could sniff out a pound of mince in the boot of car.

It was a very clever dog.

[welshbairn]

I'm sure I saw an episode of Columbo or something when they cut open a big shark and found the missing body. 

[scottsdad]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I'm sure I saw an episode of Columbo or something when they cut open a big shark and found the missing body. 

Don't think it was Columbo.

 

[SlipperyP]

47 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Ive been involved in some incredibly complex missing person investigations, some involving working theories that people have gone into a river. The level of moonhowling from people who think watching a netflix documentary makes them a detective is unreal.
 

That diver guy they  allowed to search the river butting in with theories to undermine the police was also disgraceful grandstanding as he wont know what information the enquiry has. He is just one strand and wont even be in ‘gold’ meetings. Of course the police arent releasing every bit of information they have, I genuinely think if they had evidence of third party foul play and someone was at large they would do so to reassure the public. The senior investigating officer has to update a policy document with rationale for every single decision made, to allow them to be accountable and explain why they took each step. I think they’ve done a pretty poor job around their media strategy, including not getting diver guy to wind his neck in. 

These kind of investigations are massively complex after the initial stages, but involve technical data, intelligence work, detectives interviewing witnesses, they use people with ‘POLSA’ training which is world leading training based on search techniques and parameters. In similar investigations ive been straight onto coast guard etc mapping out tidal patterns, especially with the river clyde they can almost pin point (as long as the body hasnt sunk into a silt bank) based on tidal patterns where a body will be washed up. They will be using absolutely every single thing they can to identify what happened to the poor woman. Its natural for people to be curious and speculate about things, but people with absolutely no clue jumping in ‘aVe DeY lOoKeD aT cCtV’ is absolutely not helping any one here and often just upsets the family, because i can absolutely guarantee you they will be glued to social media. 

Not everything is an exact science, there are things including in data which cause anomalies, i remember one where enquiry and data pointed to a person being in place A but due to external factors they were found in place B, the factors around place B suggested they couldnt be there, but a very small part of around 1mtr squared, where they were found, related to the place A, when a single step each way didnt. I appreciate im probably being obscure here, its difficult to explain. But in essence you can have everything leading you one direction but the truth/outcome is different, thats why they will investigate every line, it uses a system similar to HOLMES called Mirsap, which allows for several lines of enquiry to be compartmentalised and worked on simultaneously. 
 

Saw one guy going ‘why didnt they get a dog there immediately’ and in most cases dogs are great, but their ability to track is eroded with time and environmental factors, they’ll find drugs or whatever in a car thats been left for a while, but they wont track a person in a walk way hours after that person has been there. Yes there are some specialist cadaver dogs and im not sure of the parameters around them but understand in a body of water its impossible. 

Mods ffs we don't this shite on this well respected forum, I want lies and conspiracies

Anyway, I think the dog ate her! 

Defo not the husband. His pal from the dark side had f**k all to do with it.

[eindhovendee]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Ive been involved in some incredibly complex missing person investigations, some involving working theories that people have gone into a river. The level of moonhowling from people who think watching a netflix documentary makes them a detective is unreal.
 

That diver guy they  allowed to search the river butting in with theories to undermine the police was also disgraceful grandstanding as he wont know what information the enquiry has. He is just one strand and wont even be in ‘gold’ meetings. Of course the police arent releasing every bit of information they have, I genuinely think if they had evidence of third party foul play and someone was at large they would do so to reassure the public. The senior investigating officer has to update a policy document with rationale for every single decision made, to allow them to be accountable and explain why they took each step. I think they’ve done a pretty poor job around their media strategy, including not getting diver guy to wind his neck in. 

These kind of investigations are massively complex after the initial stages, but involve technical data, intelligence work, detectives interviewing witnesses, they use people with ‘POLSA’ training which is world leading training based on search techniques and parameters. In similar investigations ive been straight onto coast guard etc mapping out tidal patterns, especially with the river clyde they can almost pin point (as long as the body hasnt sunk into a silt bank) based on tidal patterns where a body will be washed up. They will be using absolutely every single thing they can to identify what happened to the poor woman. Its natural for people to be curious and speculate about things, but people with absolutely no clue jumping in ‘aVe DeY lOoKeD aT cCtV’ is absolutely not helping any one here and often just upsets the family, because i can absolutely guarantee you they will be glued to social media. 

Not everything is an exact science, there are things including in data which cause anomalies, i remember one where enquiry and data pointed to a person being in place A but due to external factors they were found in place B, the factors around place B suggested they couldnt be there, but a very small part of around 1mtr squared, where they were found, related to the place A, when a single step each way didnt. I appreciate im probably being obscure here, its difficult to explain. But in essence you can have everything leading you one direction but the truth/outcome is different, thats why they will investigate every line, it uses a system similar to HOLMES called Mirsap, which allows for several lines of enquiry to be compartmentalised and worked on simultaneously. 
 

Saw one guy going ‘why didnt they get a dog there immediately’ and in most cases dogs are great, but their ability to track is eroded with time and environmental factors, they’ll find drugs or whatever in a car thats been left for a while, but they wont track a person in a walk way hours after that person has been there. Yes there are some specialist cadaver dogs and im not sure of the parameters around them but understand in a body of water its impossible. 

I feel I am now qualified to do some detectiving.

[Busta Nut]

2 hours ago, Nkomo-A-Gogo said:

The husband doesn't seem to have done any press conferences which the police like making suspects do to scope them out.

They're not married. I think he did one today at one point.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Ive been involved in some incredibly complex missing person investigations, some involving working theories that people have gone into a river. The level of moonhowling from people who think watching a netflix documentary makes them a detective is unreal.
 

That diver guy they  allowed to search the river butting in with theories to undermine the police was also disgraceful grandstanding as he wont know what information the enquiry has. He is just one strand and wont even be in ‘gold’ meetings. Of course the police arent releasing every bit of information they have, I genuinely think if they had evidence of third party foul play and someone was at large they would do so to reassure the public. The senior investigating officer has to update a policy document with rationale for every single decision made, to allow them to be accountable and explain why they took each step. I think they’ve done a pretty poor job around their media strategy, including not getting diver guy to wind his neck in. 

These kind of investigations are massively complex after the initial stages, but involve technical data, intelligence work, detectives interviewing witnesses, they use people with ‘POLSA’ training which is world leading training based on search techniques and parameters. In similar investigations ive been straight onto coast guard etc mapping out tidal patterns, especially with the river clyde they can almost pin point (as long as the body hasnt sunk into a silt bank) based on tidal patterns where a body will be washed up. They will be using absolutely every single thing they can to identify what happened to the poor woman. Its natural for people to be curious and speculate about things, but people with absolutely no clue jumping in ‘aVe DeY lOoKeD aT cCtV’ is absolutely not helping any one here and often just upsets the family, because i can absolutely guarantee you they will be glued to social media. 

Not everything is an exact science, there are things including in data which cause anomalies, i remember one where enquiry and data pointed to a person being in place A but due to external factors they were found in place B, the factors around place B suggested they couldnt be there, but a very small part of around 1mtr squared, where they were found, related to the place A, when a single step each way didnt. I appreciate im probably being obscure here, its difficult to explain. But in essence you can have everything leading you one direction but the truth/outcome is different, thats why they will investigate every line, it uses a system similar to HOLMES called Mirsap, which allows for several lines of enquiry to be compartmentalised and worked on simultaneously. 
 

Saw one guy going ‘why didnt they get a dog there immediately’ and in most cases dogs are great, but their ability to track is eroded with time and environmental factors, they’ll find drugs or whatever in a car thats been left for a while, but they wont track a person in a walk way hours after that person has been there. Yes there are some specialist cadaver dogs and im not sure of the parameters around them but understand in a body of water its impossible. 

They often washed up just outside my office on the Broomielaw, if they'd gone in further up stream.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

20 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

They often washed up just outside my office on the Broomielaw, if they'd gone in further up stream.

Yeh. Broomielaw if they go in after the green to about the Kingston Bridge. Before the green there’s a tidal weir that has had a few from the shallower water. Further up the deeper water its theres places near the Yoker ferry, Helensburgh/Kilcreggan etc. its absolutely horrible for folks to have to see that. Was always scratching my head when the guys who plot out the tidal patterns could go ‘well if they went off this bridge at this time the tidal pattern means they’ll show up (usually in a window of a couple of months) at this point if the prediction is right. I think alot of the accuracy from the clyde comes with the shipping/military useage though so not sure how accurate they get with other bodies of water. 

[pub car king]

A cadaver dog can find a body in water, something like a slow flowing river. The gases released from the body float to the surface a bit like a fart in a bath. 

[carpetmonster]

14 minutes ago, pub car king said:

A cadaver dog can find a body in water, something like a slow flowing river. The gases released from the body float to the surface a bit like a fart in a bath. 

Yeah, there’s a bit of the Chicago River known as Bubbly Creek because it’s where the stockyards used to toss in bits of butchered animal and the water literally bubbles from the offgas.. It’s still going even tho the yards shut in the 70s

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/health-history/environmental-disaster-brought-you-meat-chicagos-bubbly-creek

[Alert Mongoose]

Crocodiles?

[Molotov]

@Inanimate Carbon Rod are you surprised that the police investigation team have allowed the family to bring in this “specialist” diver who is speaking publicly?

[SlipperyP]

4 minutes ago, pub car king said:

A cadaver dog can find a body in water, something like a slow flowing river. The gases released from the body float to the surface a bit like a fart in a bath. 

That all and good, but in this case '' the body is in a boot of car, the day of death it(harsh but fair)will be 'flung' over a cliff for fish food let's say already.

My friend told me, you don't f**k about (hold) onto dead body, get it to f**k, how? That's another friend, he doesn't like to speak about his work.

As I said earlier the dog ate her, 

I'm not sure how far the sea is from the investigation site, probably a tenner in petrol, is there boats, yes.bingo

Better @Sergeant Wilson

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

21 minutes ago, Molotov said:

@Inanimate Carbon Rod are you surprised that the police investigation team have allowed the family to bring in this “specialist” diver who is speaking publicly?

No because as ive said there can be a ‘multi agency’ approach to these investigations. Ive seen private drone companies used to search remote cliff faces in the highlands etc too.
The police divers will have already searched these places, i cant remember the terminology for it but they use divers and canoeists and poles etc to search. If it gives the family that bit of reassurance to see this guy search it then its worth doing, this is usually very controlled, i think, and i can only say from the outside with no knowledge of the actual investigation, but for me the failing is for them to allow this guy to speculate in the media and undermine what they are doing, the ‘comms’ strategy is probably rationalised in some way, but i think they arent doing themselves favours by not rebutting what he is saying now. Should have been firmer from the outset. I also think, that its easy for the media to dominate the narrative thats going about/social media because the speculation sells papers, fuels clicks and if you dont believe me i’ve got a hacked phone to sell you. I dont think anything that can actually help should be ruled out to give this family answers. I think given the topic of the thread this is in, its easy to formulate a narrative that the police arent ‘doing enough’ or whatever is doing the rounds because of the recent negative incidents (which disgust every right thinking person) so objectivity is skewed. 
 

Sometimes people just genuinely disappear and are found in circumstances which completely baffle even the biggest experts. I remember one where a person just vanished from their home, left the kids, looking for the person for over a week, media appeals, loved ones doing press conferences and they were found by chance living rough in London with no explanation given.

People think that you can just trace this and have ready access to every cctv camera etc, when its not always that easy, especially in a remote place, sometimes members of the public can also be unhelpful, people phone up with false information, not out of malice (sometimes with malice too tbf)but either because they think they’ve seen the person or a desire to inject themselves into an enquiry. I really hope they find this woman alive and well. But when the speculation starts you then get forced to answer to people as to why you’ve not done x,y,z when you potentially have done it, or have ruled out a need to do it. Every investigation is different. 
 

Genuinely feel like if I could talk freely about some specifics it would help explain some of my points a bit better, but obviously wouldnt be right to discuss specifics. That said im not saying that this enquiry/investigation team is infallible or doing everything right, just that simply without being involved its pretty difficult to tell because no one really knows. 

[velo army]

4 hours ago, eindhovendee said:

I feel I am now qualified to do some detectiving.

Eindhovendeecee

[Black Pennel]

Further back ICR said it was difficult to explain.

No, it wasn't. He explained it to us.

As far as the Clyde is concerned, I dunno why the polis never lifted George Parsonage...he always seemed tae know where the bodies were. Is that not a wee bit suspicious ?

 

[Caledonian1]

The police searched for an unfortunate lady in the river and surrounding flood plain for about 4 weeks just beside my house (at the end of 2022) They used the coast guard helicopter about four times and searched on foot a similar number of times - once with a dog as we believed the body could be in underneath some of the piles of debris washed up by the massive flood.  There are still hundreds of tonnes of debris (trees, branches and straw) on my brothers farm and to be honest if the dog wasnt able to sniff out that one time the body could still be there.  However, the flood was so powerful that the body could easily be in the North Sea (about 20 miles away)

Perhaps, a very similar story as she fell in trying to control her dog.

[Loonytoons]

5 hours ago, SlipperyP said:

Mods ffs we don't this shite on this well respected forum, I want lies and conspiracies

Anyway, I think the dog ate her! 

Defo not the husband. His pal from the dark side had f**k all to do with it.

You blaming Roger Waters?  Mazzy Star will be red dotting imminently.