Scottish Parliamentary Elections May 2021

[sophia]

2 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Get denominational schoing in the Sea ffs.
Problem solved.

What kind of shoing would that be? Left?

[GordonS]

Just now, John Lambies Doos said:

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

I don't think any of the problems in Scotland are fixed by getting rid of really good schools. 

Not sure wrapping a religious flag round a school is the crucial factor in how good it is.

Me neither, but they are really good schools and I think the ethos is the main part of that.

[John Lambies Doos]

What kind of shoing would that be? Left?

Will change.

[John Lambies Doos]

Me neither, but they are really good schools and I think the ethos is the main part of that.

The ethos or the religion?

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, John Lambies Doos said:

3 minutes ago, GordonS said:

 

Not sure wrapping a religious flag round a school is the crucial factor in how good it is.

How many denominational schools have you. studied that 'wrap a religious flag around themselves'? As opposed to 'non-denominational' schools, which definitely do not have any preferential access to the local ministers instead? 

You can kiss goodbye to any independence majority btw, if the SNP or any other pro-Yes party ever followed through with your shrill nonsense policy. 

[ayrmad]

8 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Get denominational schooling in the Sea ffs.
Problem solved.
 

Whilst I agree with you my eldest would say we're talking shit. 

[John Lambies Doos]

How many denominational schools have you. studied that 'wrap a religious flag around themselves'? As opposed to 'non-denominational' schools, which definitely do not have any preferential access to the local ministers instead? 
You can kiss goodbye to any independence majority btw, if the SNP or any other pro-Yes party ever followed through with your shrill nonsense policy. 

Its called a metaphor, and if you think separate schools for separate religions is the way forward then you're for the birds.
I do however agree with your last point re. politicians avoiding it like a barge pole

[GordonS]

Just now, John Lambies Doos said:

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

Me neither, but they are really good schools and I think the ethos is the main part of that.

The ethos or the religion?

The ethos partly comes from the religion and partly from the culture of Catholics in Scotland, with roots in the Irish migrants. In my experience Catholic schools in Scotland have a nurturing culture, encourage more collectivism and togetherness, are less internally competitive and have fewer cliques. They're far from perfect and suffer the same issues as all schools, but I've found them better places, and the religion is probably an element in it.

If they didn't exist I wouldn't argue for them, but they do and I don't think anything would be improved by getting rid of them now.

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, GordonS said:

The ethos partly comes from the religion and partly from the culture of Catholics in Scotland, with roots in the Irish migrants. In my experience Catholic schools in Scotland have a nurturing culture, encourage more collectivism and togetherness, are less internally competitive and have fewer cliques. They're far from perfect and suffer the same issues as all schools, but I've found them better places, and the religion is probably an element in it.

If they didn't exist I wouldn't argue for them, but they do and I don't think anything would be improved by getting rid of them now.

You don’t think anything we be improved by getting rid of an educational system based on religious segregation?

[John Lambies Doos]

The ethos partly comes from the religion and partly from the culture of Catholics in Scotland, with roots in the Irish migrants. In my experience Catholic schools in Scotland have a nurturing culture, encourage more collectivism and togetherness, are less internally competitive and have fewer cliques. They're far from perfect and suffer the same issues as all schools, but I've found them better places, and the religion is probably an element in it.
If they didn't exist I wouldn't argue for them, but they do and I don't think anything would be improved by getting rid of them now.

Some valid points there. I also attended a catholic school courtesy of my Irish mother, collectivenes you talk about was indirectly instilled and encouraged by the church. I also remember at the age of 8 having to confess my sins to a priest... 8 ffs. This practice still exists albeit its much more open and group based.
As far as I'm concerned religion can get as far away from our schools as possible..

[GordonS]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

You don’t think anything we be improved by getting rid of an educational system based on religious segregation?

That's what I said, yes.

It's not segregation btw, kids from families of any religion and none can attend either.

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

That's what I said, yes.

It's not segregation btw, kids from families of any religion and none can attend either.

The system is segregated.  Based on religion.  In 2021.

[GordonS]

Just now, John Lambies Doos said:

Some valid points there. I also attended a catholic school courtesy of my Irish mother, collectivenes you talk about was indirectly instilled and encouraged by the church. I also remember at the age of 8 having to confess my signs to a priest... 8 ffs. This practice still exists albeit its much more open and group based.
As far as I'm concerned religion can get as far away from our schools as possible..

The theory behind confession isn't a bad idea IMO. It's good to regularly take time to think about your behaviour and be encouraged to regret things you've done wrong.

I've got much more problem with what they teach in sex ed and about abortion. Overall though I'd say the pros outweigh the cons. 

[vikingTON]

5 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Its called a metaphor, and if you think separate schools for separate religions is the way forward then you're for the birds.
 

If there is sufficient demand for religious schooling in a local area then it's none of your business whether schools are 'separate' or not. The parents should have the right to a free choice, between facilities that the state would be funding regardless. 

Forcing an end to a policy that has been directly responsible for the enormous social uplift of a minority group because you or anyone else want to play your two-bob Richard Dawkins routine is quite clearly the intolerant and wrong approach. 

[GordonS]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

The system is segregated.  Based on religion.  In 2021.

You can keep repeating yourself all you like, it won't make it any more true.

[Granny Danger]

Just now, GordonS said:

You can keep repeating yourself all you like, it won't make it any more true.

It doesn’t need to be any more true.

[sophia]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

You don’t think anything we be improved by getting rid of an educational system based on religious segregation?

Coming from the Highlands and finding out that this is actually a thing puzzled me then and it puzzles me now. Anyone arguing that religion has a role in this matter is doing so from a subjective, weak or sectarian position.

[GordonS]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

It doesn’t need to be any more true.

What you're saying is manifestly wrong. Between the two of them my kids have moved from non-denominational to denominational schools three times. Everyone has the choice. It's separate, but it's not segregated.

Famously, in the US southern states before Brown v Board of Education kids could hop from one school to another...

[GordonS]

3 minutes ago, sophia said:

Coming from the Highlands and finding out that this is actually a thing puzzled me then and it puzzles me now. Anyone arguing that religion has a role in this matter is doing so from a subjective, weak or sectarian position.

Well, that means inside a week I've been accused on this board of being both anti-Catholic bigot and a pro-Catholic bigot. 

FWIW, do you know why Catholic schools were first established? It would really help if everyone knew this.

[sophia]

Just now, GordonS said:

Well, that means inside a week I've been accused on this board of being both anti-Catholic bigot and a pro-Catholic bigot. 

FWIW, do you know why Catholic schools were first established? It would really help if everyone knew this.

I'm not accusing you of anything so pipe down.

Your reaction shows just why politicians can't go anywhere near this sky fairy nonsense.

I couldn't give a monkeys why sectarian policies became established in areas that and I'll be quite frank with you, I have pity for.