G'Day! Ange's Gap Year Celtic Euro Backpacking Tour 2021/22.

[Monkey Tennis]

Just now, willywastecoat said:

So there is no value.

So because value for money isn't always present, especially when finances get inflated, there is no sense that more money buys you better players?

Ok Willie - you're right.

Stenhousemuir's failure to make more of a mark in Europe than AC Milan, reflects pretty poorly on them.

[Richey Edwards]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

So because value for money isn't always present, especially when finances get inflated, there is no sense that more money buys you better players?

Ok Willie - you're right.

Stenhousemuir's failure to make more of a mark in Europe than AC Milan, reflects pretty poorly on them.

Stenhousemuir actually have a fantastic European record. They have never lost a European match.

[Molotov]

22 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I'm not really arguing with the thrust of what you're saying here.

 

So are you now in agreement with what I said? Or do you still hold the belief that Jim McLean is a greater manager than Stein and Ferguson based on their achievements in Scotland and Europe with Celtic and Aberdeen.

To keep you happy I’ve removed the entry to the UEFA Super Cup.
To be fair I had just copied and pasted that originally so it was not my actual writing. My apologies for not declaring my source as I was in a rush tonight.
 

Super Cup removed from my post. 

Please can you write to Pittodrie and ask them to remove the second .

Thank you!

[willywastecoat]

6 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

So because value for money isn't always present, especially when finances get inflated, there is no sense that more money buys you better players?

Ok Willie - you're right.

Stenhousemuir's failure to make more of a mark in Europe than AC Milan, reflects pretty poorly on them.

Players have to earn their price tag very little do Monkey,you never get a pound for pound football player.

[Molotov]

7 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

Stenhousemuir actually have a fantastic European record. They have never lost a European match.

I’m sure at one stage Stenhousemuir had a big following from Scandinavia in the 80s. There was an episode of Saint and Greavsie that documented this as the men from the north regularly took in games via a number of routes. 
I’m surprised an award winning artist never knew that.  

[Richey Edwards]

1 minute ago, Molotov said:

I’m sure at one stage Stenhousemuir had a big following from Scandinavia in the 80s. There was an episode of Saint and Greavsie that documented this as the men from the north regularly took in games via a number of routes. 
I’m surprised an award winning artist never knew that.  

I'll do a drawing of that.

[Luddite]

2 hours ago, Molotov said:

I don’t think that’s entirely fair.

I said on a good few posts that McLean was a very good manager.
 

I also stated the following:

Had he won a European trophy with United he would have been a great Scottish manager like Stein and Ferguson - especially with the limited resources. I still believe that his domestic achievements in Scotland were far less than Ferguson with Aberdeen with a non-OF team. 

Fergie “guided Aberdeen to three top-flight titles, four Scottish Cups, and triumph in the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup.” Fcuk knows where I copied that from. 

 

Okay, I probably should have worded things differently. I don’t think Jim McLean is the “greatest” Scottish/British manager of all time because “great” encompasses legacy, status and probably trophy count (the simplest “metric” most people use to  measure accomplishments). But formal presentations of shiny little trinkets from “dignitaries” with ticker-tape cascading down all around is a trick of media and the “spectacle”. 
 

What I should have said is that I think Jim McLean is the best British football manager, the best at management of resources.

 

It reminds me of the story attributed to Mark Twain about an author who travelled the world hoping to talk to the greatest military general who ever lived. He learns that the greatest military general who ever lived died many years ago and is now in heaven, so the author pays a visit to St. Peter at the pearly gates (don’t ask how because II don’t know, it’s a story). Anyway, he tells St. Peter he wants to talk to the greatest military general who ever lived and St.Peter points to a little old man nearby. The author says “there must be some mistake, I know that man, he was merely a shoemaker in my village when I was a boy” and St.Peter replies “Yes, but if he had been a general he would have been the greatest general who ever lived”.

I guess that’s McLean for me, his inherent ability meant he was the best, but by staying at Dundee United he never attained the wide-spread recognition that would have had people calling him “great”.

 

Souness won 4 Scottish league titles in 5 years. Do you think Graeme Souness was a better manager than Jim McLean?

Edited November 10, 2023 by Luddite

[Jacksgranda]

58 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I'm not really arguing with the thrust of what you're saying here.

However, that Super Cup has recently gained far higher billing than it ever had at the time.  Back then, it was more of a Charity Shield type affair.  Nobody really saw it as another European trophy at all.

 

49 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

I did. So not nobody.

Me an' a'

[Molotov]

14 minutes ago, Luddite said:

What I should have said is that I think Jim McLean is the best British football manager, the best at management of resources.

It’s good to have such an opinion but I reckon 99% of managers, players and pundits would disagree with you. 

The resources Ferguson had at Aberdeen were very similar. He won so much more in a much shorter period. 

The only major outlay that he made to win the ECWC was Peter Weir for £300K which was after Archibald left for £800K to Spurs.  Perhaps @kingjoey can provide finer details.

Let’s just agree to disagree. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Molotov

[Monkey Tennis]

41 minutes ago, willywastecoat said:

Players have to earn their price tag very little do Monkey,you never get a pound for pound football player.

Right, can anyone help me with this?

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Monkey Tennis

[Luddite]

21 hours ago, Derry Alli said:

McLean was a bullying, horrible little bastirt. He signed about 400 boys a year at United and ruined more than he made. 

Too simplistic and absolute.

 

When a game at Tannadice in the 80s was called off just before kick off  (vs St Mirren I think) the St Mirren fans were protesting outside the ground. McLean went out and faced them, told them they would all get free entry into the rearranged tie PLUS United would pay for their travel.  
 

Used to give match day mascot and their parents a personal tour round the ground, the trophy room taking all the time in the world to answer their questions and give them a great day. Told the mascots they could change in his office and if anyone questioned them tell them to “Talk to Jim McLean”

 

Would answer phone calls to the ground personally and invite fans in to to meet with him, in person, to discuss, in depth,  policies they were unhappy with.

 

Took managing the clubs finances as a personal crusade, turning lights off, paying for his own meals and travel. Even made his wife pay for flowers out of her own pocket to decorate the board room each week. He was a custodian of an organization owned by the local community (in his eyes) and did everything in his power to just keep that club afloat, never mind be successful. Not for his own ego or benefit but for the local community.

Like us all, I’m sure he could be a c**t, but he gets a bad rap.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Luddite

[Luddite]

2 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Right, can anyone help me with this.

 

mate, you’re on your own with this.. I bowed out from discussing this particular line of enquiry

[54_and_counting]

9 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Right, can anyone help me with this?

 

Haha thats what you get for engaging john hartsons p&b account

[Luddite]

18 minutes ago, Molotov said:

It’s good to have such an opinion but I reckon 99% of managers, players and pundits would disagree with you. 

Probably true, although I read Fergie saying McLean was his toughest managerial opponent, and he was including all the usual suspects like Wenger and Mourinho

[Arch Stanton]

1 hour ago, willywastecoat said:

So there is no value.

Oscar Wilde once said that "A fool is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing".

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

Oscar Wilde once said that "A fool is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing".

A cynic, not a fool.

[Arch Stanton]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

A cynic, not a fool.

I stand by my description.

[kingjoey]

29 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Right, can anyone help me with this?

 

Little or no sympathy for you. That’s what you get for engaging with him. I’ve been guilty in the past.

[willywastecoat]

12 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

Oscar Wilde once said that "A fool is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing".

Monkey said the price was inflated,we all know we're getting the value of nothing M8.

[Monkey Tennis]

18 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

I stand by my description.

Yes, but it wasn't Oscar's.