welshbairn Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 minute ago, pandarilla said: Did the Italian fans have stuff chucked at them in the stands? I missed that, but i see it's part of the charge sheet. Hopefully they get hammered. Unconfirmed reports of some of them getting systematically battered as they exited the ground. Loads more stuff in the city centre earlier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senorsoupe Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 I wouldn't be surprised if England are forced to play some games behind closed doors. By all reports, the police presence and security was woefully inadequate for an event of this magnitude (and kick off time). Add in that they already had prior charges (the laser pointer incident) in the previous game so I would hope UEFA comes down on the FA 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 I've caught up. What a thread. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senorsoupe Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Just now, welshbairn said: Unconfirmed reports of some of them getting systematically battered as they exited the ground. Loads more stuff in the city centre earlier. There were also reports of some of the ticketless fans getting into the Italy end before kick off and starting trouble 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 The couple of minutes from 34.30 at this link are particularly damning. https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000wzfr/krept-and-konan-we-are-england 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Just now, pandarilla said: You're judging something in history by today's standards. Context matters. Nowadays we understand that the joke was racist - but that's only because we're looking at it through a modern, more educated lense. Right, so we agree it was racist. Glad we finally got there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, pandarilla said: Out was to laugh at the guy with the funny hairstyle. The discussion regarding ethnicity and hair is even more recent than that of blackface. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to find folk in the early 2000s making jokes about hairstyles and out not being brought up as offensive. Why did he need blackface to laugh at Jason Lee’s hairstyle? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: Why did he need blackface to laugh at Jason Lee’s hairstyle? Clearly the only way to solve this is to put Jason Lee in a time machine and give him his own 1996 show where he wears a Groucho Marx kit and shouts ‘Frenk! Frenk! Have you drank all my Manischewitz again you alcoholic putz’ with a Brummie comatose in pished breeks in the corner. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 So did I! #metoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 49 minutes ago, mizfit said: UEFA has launched a disciplinary investigation into actions of fans in and around Wembley at the Euro 2020 final between England and Italy. The Football Association has also been hit with four charges for the invasion of the field by an England supporter, throwing of objects by supporters, disturbance during the Italian national anthem and lighting of fireworks. €500 fine incoming, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Right, so we agree it was racist. Glad we finally got there. [emoji23] Why did he need blackface to laugh at Jason Lee’s hairstyle? Because they were trying to make it clear it was Jason Lee, who was black. It wouldn't have been very convincing if they didn't make the effort, and remember, blackface wasn't really considered as offensive at that time. I genuinely don't think there was any racist intention in the joke. But as they've acknowledged, with hindsight, it was wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: Why did he need blackface to laugh at Jason Lee’s hairstyle? Good point , addressed above ! Edited July 13, 2021 by ewan14 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 28 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: Why did he need blackface to laugh at Jason Lee’s hairstyle? 8 minutes ago, pandarilla said: Because they were trying to make it clear it was Jason Lee, who was black. It wouldn't have been very convincing if they didn't make the effort Some effort to avoid just saying a thing you liked in the 90s was a bit racist m8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Some effort to avoid just saying a thing you liked in the 90s was a bit racist m8And some effort to desperately find offence in something that happened before you were born. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomintroll Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Bear in mind that as recently as 2011, David Williams & Matt Lucas were getting 10 million viewers watching them in blackface make up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled tangerine Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 33 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: Clearly the only way to solve this is to put Jason Lee in a time machine and give him his own 1996 show where he wears a Groucho Marx kit and shouts ‘Frenk! Frenk! Have you drank all my Manischewitz again you alcoholic putz’ with a Brummie comatose in pished breeks in the corner. That sounds fucking terrific! As a reminder, The Brittas Empire was still on TV in 1996. ☹ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, pandarilla said: And some effort to desperately find offence in something that happened before you were born. 1. I was born 2. I'm not offended at all. But your efforts to cherry pick what counts as context and intention, rather than adding nuance to a discussion, flatten it out with the only obvious purpose of not having to examine why you maybe shouldn't have laughed at a guy bullying a black man while mocking his ethnicity (in blackface) are really pathetic. I'm glad though because this conversation has confirmed you've taken your own advice and read everything in the Spiked archives. Thank you for the good faith debate and I look forward to our next joust in the marketplace of ideas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, pandarilla said: My argument is that they shouldn't be 'cancelled' - which was the original mention here. Context matters, as for me there was no intention of racism in the joke. In the mid 90s, the damaging effect of blackface was not something that was widely discussed or known about. The intention behind the joke really does matter. But due to the change in our society (which i fully support), anyone making a similar blackface joke today could not use that excuse. The B&W Minstrel show was cancelled in the 70s (just checked 1978) so the lampooning of Lee on the Baddiel/Skinner show shouldn't have happened almost two decades later. It wasn't edgy late Friday night material, just cringeworthy as was much of the show's content. Edited July 13, 2021 by btb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 I don’t know seeing as I was 2 when it happened, but what was the intention behind the joke of ‘blacking up and sticking a pineapple on his head’? I'd have been in my mid 30s. The intention was to make people laugh at a hairstyle sported by a black man. A hairstyle which one would only expect to see on a black man. It was, never mind the bullshit "context" argument, minstrel-level racism. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 One of them might have known better considering he is of a minoritySince when was Brummie a protected characteristic? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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