Kilwinning Rangers 24/25

[Leeco10]

34 minutes ago, Park the Buffs said:

Here’s the problem with I have with another year of Chris Aitken Leeco - it was obvious a year ago that the squad was nowhere near good enough and yet the manager changed virtually nothing over the close season. Why not?

Pure and simply, finances.

Had the budget been bigger there would have been more signings.

[TwoFooted]

2 minutes ago, Leeco10 said:

Aye, cheers

I'm not blinkered to Aitkens lack of success, but I  do think it's for very different reasons to that of the previous manager.

We obviously have very different opinions on this and whether am a "Plonker" or not

 

I deleted the plonker bit as that wasn't respectful everyone is entitled to their option but you're definitely an Aitken fan which confuses me considering his failures 

[TwoFooted]

39 minutes ago, Park the Buffs said:

Here’s the problem with I have with another year of Chris Aitken Leeco - it was obvious a year ago that the squad was nowhere near good enough and yet the manager changed virtually nothing over the close season. Why not?

Exactly my point 

[Leeco10]

1 minute ago, TwoFooted said:

I deleted the plonker bit as that wasn't respectful everyone is entitled to their option but you're definitely an Aitken fan which confuses me considering his failures 

Thanks for that

Fan might be too strong a word, he is a likeable character as is Durranty.

To be fare I liked Gormley and his team, where I do see a difference is the inability to see where it was going wrong, a stubbornness to make substitutions when players were clearly having a howler, Clydebank away comes t mind, that's where he lost my support.

[TwoFooted]

Just now, Leeco10 said:

Thanks for that

Fan might be too strong a word, he is a likeable character as is Durranty.

To be fare I liked Gormley and his team, where I do see a difference is the inability to see where it was going wrong, a stubbornness to make substitutions when players were clearly having a howler, Clydebank away comes t mind, that's where he lost my support.

Lee how can you make that comparison he was only in the place for 5months give or take a few months. I seen some great games under Gormley and some howlers. Losing a GK and having to deal with injuries also TC in particular as well as some bad signings I would agree. I think the club are short sighted or as I said in my earlier post maybe it's for financial reasons he has to stay

[Leeco10]

1 hour ago, TwoFooted said:

I think the club are short sighted or as I said in my earlier post maybe it's for financial reasons he has to stay

I think we need to agree to disagree on this point.

Buffs have had a long term plan, most of which is now in place.

SFA Licence, Player Pathway, U20s, new Park and Clubhouse etc, we were also one of 3 teams instrumental in the formation of the West of Scotland League and the Pyramid.

Where it hasn't matched the long term plans is on the playing side, the relegation and failure to go back up and compete at the top level.

The financial impact of getting us through the SFA license has meant sacrifices elswhere, that will undoubtedly include playing budget.

Like I said in a previous post, it was a short term pain for long term gain.

Wee question, who would you have as manager if not Tiff?

A few teams have had managerial Merry-go-rounds in recent seasons, do we try with another unproven manager, or do we stick by the current one and hope we can get a bit of consistency.

The latter is my choice but appreciate the frustrations among the Faithful.

COYB

[andy25]

Sacking Chris Strain worked out well for Kilwinning

[Leeco10]

1 minute ago, andy25 said:

Sacking Chris Strain worked out well for Kilwinning

Worked out well for Chris Strain, he's shown his ability at a club with better resources than us.

Fair play to him.

[Park the Buffs]

Appreciate your posts Leeco. But to go back to last pre season - we didn’t refresh the playing squad because the budget was tight -  is the explanation for keeping roughly the same squad. Presumably the budget is now even tighter as attendances must be down so how is he going to manage a significant change this summer? 

[TwoFooted]

1 hour ago, Park the Buffs said:

Appreciate your posts Leeco. But to go back to last pre season - we didn’t refresh the playing squad because the budget was tight -  is the explanation for keeping roughly the same squad. Presumably the budget is now even tighter as attendances must be down so how is he going to manage a significant change this summer? 

He won't he's already failed imo

Edited May 5 by TwoFooted

[Leeco10]

2 hours ago, Park the Buffs said:

Appreciate your posts Leeco. But to go back to last pre season - we didn’t refresh the playing squad because the budget was tight -  is the explanation for keeping roughly the same squad. Presumably the budget is now even tighter as attendances must be down so how is he going to manage a significant change this summer? 

Not sure of the budget for next season, but gate money doesn't cover it, and would be surprised if it ever did. It's a valued contribution but forms part a combination of Sponsorship, merchandise, gate, bar and events that makes up the fighting fund for the season.

If folk support the Club Events, and continue to show support by turning up for games  then the situation will improve, but we also need a bit of luck, something that's deserted us for the past few season's.

 

[Peter Culter]

4 hours ago, Leeco10 said:

I think we need to agree to disagree on this point.

Buffs have had a long term plan, most of which is now in place.

SFA Licence, Player Pathway, U20s, new Park and Clubhouse etc, we were also one of 3 teams instrumental in the formation of the West of Scotland League and the Pyramid.

Where it hasn't matched the long term plans is on the playing side, the relegation and failure to go back up and compete at the top level.

The financial impact of getting us through the SFA license has meant sacrifices elswhere, that will undoubtedly include playing budget.

Like I said in a previous post, it was a short term pain for long term gain.

Wee question, who would you have as manager if not Tiff?

A few teams have had managerial Merry-go-rounds in recent seasons, do we try with another unproven manager, or do we stick by the current one and hope we can get a bit of consistency.

The latter is my choice but appreciate the frustrations among the Faithful.

COYB

Great posts, Leeco10.

I can definitely see your points but have to say I’m still firmly in the ‘Aitken Out’ camp.

To your question of who would replace him, Jamie McKim who worked wonders at Johnstone Burgh prior to their cash injection would be the man for me.

Currently sitting doing nothing so, personally, don’t think the club should be hanging about.

On the point of training, just because they are intense doesn’t mean they are necessarily good.

With them being so intense as you say he’s running a fine line between getting the best out of the players or getting them on the treatment table.

It’s what is communicated during those sessions that’s important and if it’s as good as what he gives on match days then therein lies a big problem.

Gormley for all of his failings got less time as Manager and less negativity than Aitken is getting now and was removed but as another poster said, we probably can’t afford to sack him due to next-to-no income (although we were assured at the AGM that we would have six weeks’ money banked at all times).

I can’t see him resigning as, again, my own opinion, I find him extremely arrogant but we all have different views on people.

My last query, if I were to walk into my work with a conversion rate as poor as Aitken and openly stating that I’d failed, would I be kept on for another year?

I highly doubt it.

Edited May 5 by Peter Culter

[Leeco10]

41 minutes ago, Peter Culter said:

Great posts, Leeco10.

I can definitely see your points but have to say I’m still firmly in the ‘Aitken Out’ camp.

To your question of who would replace him, Jamie McKim who worked wonders at Johnstone Burgh prior to their cash injection would be the man for me.

Currently sitting doing nothing so, personally, don’t think the club should be hanging about.

On the point of training, just because they are intense doesn’t mean they are necessarily good.

With them being so intense as you say he’s running a fine line between getting the best out of the players or getting them on the treatment table.

It’s what is communicated during those sessions that’s important and if it’s as good as what he gives on match days then therein lies a big problem.

Gormley for all of his failings got less time as Manager and less negativity than Aitken is getting now and was removed but as another poster said, we probably can’t afford to sack him due to next-to-no income (although we were assured at the AGM that we would have six weeks’ money banked at all times).

I can’t see him resigning as, again, my own opinion, I find him extremely arrogant but we all have different views on people.

My last query, if I were to walk into my work with a conversation rate as poor as Aitken and openly stating that I’d failed, would I be kept on for another year?

I highly doubt it.

I think we were a bit nieve to say we wanted 6 weeks money in the bank, not so long ago we were also talking about a covered seating area, the money simply isn't there just now.

They are, I believe still objectives, and I still think will be achievable in the very near future, just not right now.

I get the "Aitken out" sentiment, there's also the "Gormley never got a chance" and "should never have let Strain go" camps, all with their own merits.

I'm of the "we sacked Strain and Gormley and ended up relegated within 13 months, Will sacking the current manager and having then to bring in a new manger and build a team with a tight budget be any better" camp.

I might be in the minority, but it's only my opinion.

[Peter Culter]

3 minutes ago, Leeco10 said:

I think we were a bit nieve to say we wanted 6 weeks money in the bank, not so long ago we were also talking about a covered seating area, the money simply isn't there just now.

They are, I believe still objectives, and I still think will be achievable in the very near future, just not right now.

I get the "Aitken out" sentiment, there's also the "Gormley never got a chance" and "should never have let Strain go" camps, all with their own merits.

I'm of the "we sacked Strain and Gormley and ended up relegated within 13 months, Will sacking the current manager and having then to bring in a new manger and build a team with a tight budget be any better" camp.

I might be in the minority, but it's only my opinion.

I get you.

Another excellent post and sensible debate.

[energyzone]

The problem with recruitment at this level is that the manager is often part of the appeal to players, given that wages will be relatively small and clubs like ours will be outbid by the tier 6 clubs and the Drumchapel/Johnstone new money clubs.

I don't see any evidence of Aitken being the reason that players want to sign. It actually almost feels like we are shopping in the bargain basement for players that no other club wants. I want him to succeed as he seems a nice guy and clearly cares very much about the club and is aware of the responsibility he has.  I'm just not seeing any improvement at all and I'm not sure how we get the players in who will make a difference.

[funky monkey]

1 hour ago, energyzone said:

The problem with recruitment at this level is that the manager is often part of the appeal to players, given that wages will be relatively small and clubs like ours will be outbid by the tier 6 clubs and the Drumchapel/Johnstone new money clubs.

I don't see any evidence of Aitken being the reason that players want to sign. It actually almost feels like we are shopping in the bargain basement for players that no other club wants. I want him to succeed as he seems a nice guy and clearly cares very much about the club and is aware of the responsibility he has.  I'm just not seeing any improvement at all and I'm not sure how we get the players in who will make a difference.

This. Very much this. It was rumoured that Aitken was sacked at EK due to his inability to get players in, wether that rumour is true or not I have no idea.

After relegation, I was expecting a pretty much full refresh of the squad with Aitken bringing in his own players. Instead the opposite happened, we started the season with more or less the same squad minus the likes of TC.

Sure we've brought in players during the course of the season, but guys like Coleman, McGregor and Boylan were hardly hard to find, already well known to the club.

So, as you say, it didn't feel like we had any kind of recruitment strategy, instead reliant upon bargain basement signings.

As you say, if money is tight and we know it is, at our level of football it's about how the manager sells the club and getting in players who want to play for the manager. I've seen very little of that happening at the club.

In terms of professionalism and intense training, why have we suffered so many injuries this season? What is our first choice defence? Have we ever put out the same starting 11 two games in a row?

Aitken had the chance to keep us in the premier league, we had plenty of games to play when he came in. He's had the chance to shape his own squad and didn't take the chance. What is he going to do this Summer that he failed to do last Summer. His league win rate is sitting at 1 in 3. He's lost 7 of the last 10 league games. We got battered 5 1 yesterday by a club already relegated who had 5 league wins and only scored 30 league goals before yesterday.

If the club can afford to get rid of the manager then they should do so now. However I fear that that's impossible due to his contract situation and the possibility that he is a creditor to the club.

Grim times at the Buffs. The bright new dawn at KSC now seems a distant memory.

Edited May 5 by funky monkey

[Fabi]

On 05/05/2024 at 22:06, energyzone said:

The problem with recruitment at this level is that the manager is often part of the appeal to players, given that wages will be relatively small and clubs like ours will be outbid by the tier 6 clubs and the Drumchapel/Johnstone new money clubs.

I don't see any evidence of Aitken being the reason that players want to sign. It actually almost feels like we are shopping in the bargain basement for players that no other club wants. I want him to succeed as he seems a nice guy and clearly cares very much about the club and is aware of the responsibility he has.  I'm just not seeing any improvement at all and I'm not sure how we get the players in who will make a difference.

Lots of interesting reading here and loads of fair points and arguments. 
What I'd say is it's a totally different breed of player and mentality that is coming through now and you just have to look at Talbot at the start of the season to see , good manager , fine set up, chance of winning things etc etc isn't the big sell it used to be, Tucker was getting slaughtered for his lack of tranfer activity and the quality of those he had signed, but I've no doubt a lot of that came down to Talbots strict wage budget.
The wage structure of many of the new teams and the sugar daddies teams have ruined that, you add into the mix that the new generation coming through main motive is a pay day then unfortunately teams like the buffs will struggle these days. 
I saw it first hand when coaching with Kevin Deeneys at Medda. He had targeted good players to hopefully bolster and improve the squad but never hardly got any over the line because of the ridiculous wage demands and offers on the table elsewhere. 
Yes you always had one or two teams paying more down the year in spells, the buffs being one of these teams. But the volume of teams paying big sums now makes it harder for those clubs sticking to a budget to entice players in, there is just two many offers of riches out there now. So yes unfortunately it is bargain basement or picking up gems from lower leagues, which I'm sure there are plenty out there. 
But I know that's not what fans of any clubs want to see, we all want marque signings but despite the set up at the buffs, which has improved 10 fold since my time playing with them, I can assure you it's down the list of priorities for a lot of players. 

[Park the Buffs]

Thanks for the insight Fabi. I don’t think any of us were expecting (having been relegated) marquee signings but I think we were expecting a big turnaround in players last close season. Very little changed - Mark McLuckie being the notable exception - and we started the season abysmally. Having rallied during the Autumn we’ve now deteriorated to the point where Leeco has stated we would have been facing a second successive relegation had we not got points on the board earlier in the season. We’re currently in a downward trajectory and based on what’s happened so far under Chris Aitken it’s hard to see him changing that.

[funky monkey]

We definitely aren't in the ballpark for marquee signings, I don't think any Buffs fans expected that.

What I was expecting was a management team with good contacts around the game who would beg, steal, cajole and borrow players to get a more competitive and promotion worthy team on the park. That's what I was expecting from Aitken, Durrant et al. I honestly thought that players would like to come to Buffs because of the facilities and to work with one of the finest midfielders this country has ever produced. It just hasn't transpired and there's no evidence to suggest that'll change any time soon.

We are on a downward trajectory and the very least I'd hope for at this time is that we halt this trend and stabilise the club. I said as much as the last AGM when the mood of the room was that we'd only be in this league for a season.

[Peter Culter]

I hope that result tonight doesn’t mean he’s done enough to remain in charge!

Can’t see me renewing any club membership until he’s gone.