Kilwinning Rangers 24/25

[funky monkey]

11 minutes ago, Leeco10 said:

Thats a grim post PC, the guy is passionate about the club and the team and wears his heart on his sleave, nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

The same "nutter" as you called him has supported the many club events run to keep this club afloat, not many among us that can say that, can you?

Some fans prefer to support the Club quietly in their own manner, there are others more vocal and passionate and then there's the ones that you'd be hard pushed to tell if they're a Buffs fan or not they are so negative about everything.

Sack Strain, Sack Gormley, Sack the Committee, Sack Tiff, oh!, and if we change the manager, he's got two weeks grace till we should Sack him too.

It's fair to say that the man in question is very passionate about the club and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

However, taking our blue and white tinted specs off for a second, there's always got to be space for questions and objective thinking. If there wasn't, there would be nothing much to drive the club forward. I'm sure every committee meeting is conducted on this basis.

Sometimes we all get a bit het up about things and confuse criticism with not supporting the club. As long as the criticism is fair and reasonable, there should always be a listening ear.

As it is, the man in question is a great supporter of all things that the club put on and that's to be admired, fair play to him. Personally, I love his hi 5s before the game, it's his thing and pretty unique.

At the end of the day (huge football cliche) we all support the Buffs and want what's best for the club. My personal preference is that we should be changing manager after two poor seasons and with no obvious signs that things will improve. Results and statistics speak for themselves, on and off the park.

[Park the Buffs]

Steady the Buffs Leeco. The folk who give up their time for free to run the club have decided the manager is to get more time. I disagree with the decision but I accept it. The personal attacks by others I don’t like at all but that’s forums like this for you.

On a different point - looking at how the First Division table is concluding this season it looks like you need to be averaging close to 2 points per game to gain promotion (roughly 3 wins every 5 games) can we achieve that next season?

[funky monkey]

6 hours ago, Park the Buffs said:

Steady the Buffs Leeco. The folk who give up their time for free to run the club have decided the manager is to get more time. I disagree with the decision but I accept it. The personal attacks by others I don’t like at all but that’s forums like this for you.

On a different point - looking at how the First Division table is concluding this season it looks like you need to be averaging close to 2 points per game to gain promotion (roughly 3 wins every 5 games) can we achieve that next season?

It's impossible to say if we can achieve that until we see how the squad is shaping up and then how they start the league season. 

[TwoFooted]

10 hours ago, Leeco10 said:

Thats a grim post PC, the guy is passionate about the club and the team and wears his heart on his sleave, nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

The same "nutter" as you called him has supported the many club events run to keep this club afloat, not many among us that can say that, can you?

Some fans prefer to support the Club quietly in their own manner, there are others more vocal and passionate and then there's the ones that you'd be hard pushed to tell if they're a Buffs fan or not they are so negative about everything.

Sack Strain, Sack Gormley, Sack the Committee, Sack Tiff, oh!, and if we change the manager, he's got two weeks grace till we should Sack him too.

Sack him now 

[TwoFooted]

1 hour ago, funky monkey said:

It's impossible to say if we can achieve that until we see how the squad is shaping up and then how they start the league season. 

That's exactly what it's like for most new managers they will bring in players who will either do well or they will disappoint us.

That's why I except managers should be given time. Aitken should have done this the minute he took over from Gormley and failed, failed miserably.

Those at the club who are keeping him in post are delusional. What are they seeing that we aren't seeing. 
 

Why haven't the fans turned on Aitken his record has got to be the worse the club has, and yet he's paraded as a GOAT what a joke 

 

[Peter Culter]

10 hours ago, Leeco10 said:

Thats a grim post PC, the guy is passionate about the club and the team and wears his heart on his sleave, nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

The same "nutter" as you called him has supported the many club events run to keep this club afloat, not many among us that can say that, can you?

Some fans prefer to support the Club quietly in their own manner, there are others more vocal and passionate and then there's the ones that you'd be hard pushed to tell if they're a Buffs fan or not they are so negative about everything.

Sack Strain, Sack Gormley, Sack the Committee, Sack Tiff, oh!, and if we change the manager, he's got two weeks grace till we should Sack him too.

Yes, I can.

Have been a member of the Buffs Foundation since its inception, bought hospitality packages at Abbey & Buffs Park, purchased various pieces of merchandise and donated to the club and will do again in future.

Not once have I spoken about sacking the committee or Strain, the others I have and with very good reason.

 

[Peter Culter]

1 minute ago, TwoFooted said:

That's exactly what it's like for most new managers they will bring in players who will either do well or they will disappoint us.

That's why I except managers should be given time. Aitken should have done this the minute he took over from Gormley and failed, failed miserably.

Those at the club who are keeping him in post are delusional. What are they seeing that we aren't seeing. 
 

Why haven't the fans turned on Aitken his record has got to be the worse the club has, and yet he's paraded as a GOAT what a joke 

 

Correct.

[parkcircus]

Been a very interesting read, and it’s  a very true statement that fans have no idea how a football club runs.

Firstly you have to look at where the club has come from.

At the end of Chris’s last season there were 5 signed players for the following season and the squad was ageing.

We knew that to replace 1 position on average it took 4 player transfers, think how many right backs the club had between Coleman and Woods, how many Centre Backs between The Campbell’s and Syme?

and the club still doesn’t have a premier league left back since Sam went to troon

So when we appointed Gormley and “Needed” to sign 15/16 players in one shot we knew that 10 of them wouldn’t be there the following season and it would take 3/4 seasons to rebuild a squad, and with that many incoming theres all the relationship building, a squad on 24 plus coaches that’s over 400 connections and relationships that need built in a preseason, setting aside egos and drama.

Once Gormley was replaced by Chris this was now going to be reset and needed to done again, but this time with contracted players on the books, this takes time.

Chris A has had a full season with this squad and hopefully only needs to add 5/6 players, any more and promotion is a gamble next year.

In my time at the Buffs I’ve seen barely any players hitting the ground running and preforming in season one, maybe Pettigrew, it’s still a mystery to me why players like Marc McKenzie and Ryan Wilson didn’t find it the right environment for them, but that happens at every club, just look at the players that moved on, TC’s done well but not to his levels. But watch him next year.

So guys if the committee decide that they see enough in what Chris and his team are doing then either back them or shut up, your entrance fee at the gate doesn’t give you a right to slaughter peoples judgements, and for taking a pot shot at Lee, that’s out of order, he pays the same entrance fee as everyone else and can support the team in a positive way as he see’s fit.

I had to put up with a lot of shit from fans, thrown bottles, fcuk Beith flags, death threats by phone, and I would rather have 100  Lee Crichton’s at the club than 1 bitter and twisted hater of everything.

Realistically, Chances are next year will not be a promotion year, I personally don’t think the foundations of the squad are there for it, rebuilding a full back 5 isn’t easy. But they’ll get closer and if some other clubs slip up then it’ll be there for the Buffs to grab.

Just because the club is run fantastically off the park doesn’t have any baring on the park, JB would have been in the mix without the big budget and the Buffs budget should be about the same or more than Shotts/Rutherglen etc, building a team takes time, get behind them, join the foundation, it’s a tenner a week, give them a chance.

[funky monkey]

An interesting post, but a lot of controversial stuff in there.

Firstly, how can fans have no idea how a club runs when it's often fans running clubs? Are the Buffs committee not fans, the volunteers and anybody that mucks in?

Secondly, what's the reasoning to justify it taking 4 player transfers to get one that 'makes it'. Interested in the rationale behind that.

Thirdly, it is difficult to build a fully functioning squad, nobody is denying that, particularly when cash is king. However, it's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that the Buffs can construct a squad that will be promotion competitive next season. Essentially that is the work of the manager. I'm sure nobody on the committee will tell the impending AGM attendees that promotion cannot be achieved next season.

One thing is for sure, it's the committee that will decide when the managers time is up, wether the majority/minority of the fans like that or not. Anybody that volunteers their time to make Kilwinning Rangers what it is has to be respected. That does not mean, however, that opinions and thoughts shouldn't be voiced on a forum such as this, as long as opinions aren't personal or vindictive.

 

[parkcircus]

I’ll answer the 2nd first, check the data? It’s there in front of you, how many players last longer than 3 seasons, then look at the number of players the clubs signed in the last 7 years.

firstly, fans that have never been on the committee have no idea how a club runs, the buffs committee are a seasoned group that have went through a lot, hence there reluctance to change dispite “fans” voicing there opinion.

3rd, the manager and the team go in week to week results, committees run on yearly results, I personally think it would be a top 6 target with a chance of promotion, rather than “they’ll be lucky to catch us”. I’d never promised a league position, neither did John Bennet, Danny Watt, Andy Martin and Wullie before me did.

At a meeting with David Gromley he suggested winning the league, after I stopped laughing I offered the advice to try and keep us up and go for it the next season. the data is there. New squads very rarely win on the first season outing, just doesn’t happen.

fans pointing at guys like Lee and Greame as the issue want to have a look at themselves.

 

[funky monkey]

Lots of players last longer than 3 seasons. It's the recruitment policy that's caused us problems and led to high turnover. You previously mentioned an ageing squad, but when Gormley came in he hung his hat on Mark Miller, Chris Millar and Kevin Nicholl, all of whom were a failure.

After our relegation last season, which shouldn't have happened, we had no particular recruitment strategy and started the season poorly with more or less the same group that had taken the club down.

I've no particular issue with the committee. The chairman is a great Buffs man, there's other guys who've been there for a long time volunteering their services to the benefit of the club.

How can any committee run on yearly results when people come and go, players come and go, managers and coaches come and go? Plans might well be yearly, but decisions are taken based upon results. On field results affect every aspect of a football club. Reactive decisions have to be made too. Johnstone Burgh and Darvel are prime examples in recent weeks.

New squads can have success. Johnstone Burgh have just proven that and that's with a high turnover of players over the course of the season. AWR have enjoyed back to back promotions through astute recruitment and highly intelligent coaching.

Fans pointing at other fans is less than productive and unhelpful, but sometimes there's a need to poke and prod, nothing ever improves through blind loyalty, sometimes difficult questions need to be asked, particularly off the back of a couple of poor seasons. The real statistics of concern are a league win rate of approximately 1 in 3, including a loss rate of 7 out of our last 11 league games, with our home record being particularly poor. Whilst the takings at the gate are not what keep the club afloat, the numbers coming through are a big indicator of where the club is at and nobody can deny that some of the crowds at Buffs Park last season were a cause for concern.

I'm not saying anything here that I haven't said already in here. As you know, I'm just a fan that is hoping to see a better team on the park, a competitive team that can get promotion. The longer we stay in this league, the harder it'll be to get out of it, indeed look at Cambuslang Rangers and the prospect of dropping further if we are not careful.

 

 

[parkcircus]

I wouldn’t put the Buffs in the same category as Cambuslang but dropping further down is obviously a possibility.

the win rate is a number that can’t be overlooked, but it’s fixable with what’s in place, I imagine they have a plan.

what’s the actual point difference from going up, it’s probably about 12/15 points, this season they’ve missed out by 4/5 wins. 
that should be an easy fix for the manager, they need a good back 5 and a midfield that can supply the decent front line.

on the other clubs, JB haven’t won anything with mega budget, Darvel had  the base of a squad that stayed as they went up the leagues adding 3/4 players a season.

winton is very much the same, most of the team that started last week have been there from the previous season, the 4 players on the bench have been there from when Gav went there, 3 of them are ex buffs players. Squad stability is high at Winton and Darvel, JB’s the anomaly.

1 issue that would have been easily overlooked is the ability to get premier quality players to play in Div1

when your a prem team you can get anyone below you and usual talk to LL and L2 players, but in Dov 2 you can only get players at that level and below, not many Prem players are dropping down. So you need knowledge of the level, or some people in your team to put a network together, there’s 2 maybe 3 players in Caley Loco team that would be good additions to the Buffs team, but someone has to be constantly looking and wheeling and dealing.

 

 

[funky monkey]

47 minutes ago, parkcircus said:

I wouldn’t put the Buffs in the same category as Cambuslang but dropping further down is obviously a possibility.

the win rate is a number that can’t be overlooked, but it’s fixable with what’s in place, I imagine they have a plan.

what’s the actual point difference from going up, it’s probably about 12/15 points, this season they’ve missed out by 4/5 wins. 
that should be an easy fix for the manager, they need a good back 5 and a midfield that can supply the decent front line.

on the other clubs, JB haven’t won anything with mega budget, Darvel had  the base of a squad that stayed as they went up the leagues adding 3/4 players a season.

winton is very much the same, most of the team that started last week have been there from the previous season, the 4 players on the bench have been there from when Gav went there, 3 of them are ex buffs players. Squad stability is high at Winton and Darvel, JB’s the anomaly.

1 issue that would have been easily overlooked is the ability to get premier quality players to play in Div1

when your a prem team you can get anyone below you and usual talk to LL and L2 players, but in Dov 2 you can only get players at that level and below, not many Prem players are dropping down. So you need knowledge of the level, or some people in your team to put a network together, there’s 2 maybe 3 players in Caley Loco team that would be good additions to the Buffs team, but someone has to be constantly looking and wheeling and dealing.

 

 

Knowledge of the level and a network to identify and bring in players. That's the nail on the head for me and precisely why we have struggled the last couple of seasons.

Yes, cash is king, Fabi put up a brilliant post about the importance of wages offered and changing priority of players in the game, pounds in the bank before trophies and medals. However, and perhaps naively on my part, I still believe that there's ways to wheel and deal to get a competitive team on the park, nobody expects Buffs to be competing for top level players, but we should be competing for talented players at the level we are competing at in terms of the history of the club, the facilities on offer and players getting looked after and wanting to play for the manager and management team. Shotts have proven what can be achieved and that's with a backlog of games at the business end of the season. No reason why Buffs can't emulate Shotts next season if the hard work is done during this close season.

[wow-wee]

37 minutes ago, funky monkey said:

Knowledge of the level and a network to identify and bring in players. That's the nail on the head for me and precisely why we have struggled the last couple of seasons.

Yes, cash is king, Fabi put up a brilliant post about the importance of wages offered and changing priority of players in the game, pounds in the bank before trophies and medals. However, and perhaps naively on my part, I still believe that there's ways to wheel and deal to get a competitive team on the park, nobody expects Buffs to be competing for top level players, but we should be competing for talented players at the level we are competing at in terms of the history of the club, the facilities on offer and players getting looked after and wanting to play for the manager and management team. Shotts have proven what can be achieved and that's with a backlog of games at the business end of the season. No reason why Buffs can't emulate Shotts next season if the hard work is done during this close season.

John mckeown has spent nearly 6 seasons building that shotts team . The buffs are hoping a bit of stability may be the best option rather than gamble on another manager ?

[funky monkey]

7 hours ago, wow-wee said:

John mckeown has spent nearly 6 seasons building that shotts team . The buffs are hoping a bit of stability may be the best option rather than gamble on another manager ?

At the AGM last year the mood in the room was promotion in a season. I spoke briefly about stability being a more realistic aim for the club.

It's the committee's right to determine keeping or releasing the manager, despite what the fans want. All I'm saying is that the stats aren't good and there is little to suggest that they will improve.

This is a huge close season for the club. The manager is under pressure to get the squad promotion competitive. Thereafter, the evidence will be on the park at the start of next season. Is it a gamble worth taking, time will tell.

BTW Danny, you have been an amazing servant to the club over the years, any abuse that comes your way is completely unacceptable. A Buffs fan with more sense and composure than most, except when you are running the line .

[energyzone]

It's becoming increasingly difficult to succeed at this level. The game has changed a lot in the last few years.  Looking at the Premier League, we can't compete financially with the newer clubs (Gartcairn, Drumchapel, St Cadocs) and we don't have the fanbase of Pollok, Auchinleck or Clydebank (we should given the size of the town).  Add to that the money that Johnstone Burgh, Darvel (for now) and potentially now Cumnock are deploying and already you are doing well to finish in the top 10.  It makes Beith's achievements all the more remarkable.  I can see Hurlford and Troon begin to struggle next season. And John McKeown has done well getting Shotts up, but may find an uneven playing field when he gets there. 

Obviously clubs receiving financial backing and skewing the financial landscape isn't an alien concept to this level of football, but normally it's one club at a time and for a limited time.  It now seems to be the new norm.

 

[History Buff]

We’ve lost Ben Lewis

[Thejackdaw]

On 14/05/2024 at 21:53, energyzone said:

It's becoming increasingly difficult to succeed at this level. The game has changed a lot in the last few years.  Looking at the Premier League, we can't compete financially with the newer clubs (Gartcairn, Drumchapel, St Cadocs) and we don't have the fanbase of Pollok, Auchinleck or Clydebank (we should given the size of the town).  Add to that the money that Johnstone Burgh, Darvel (for now) and potentially now Cumnock are deploying and already you are doing well to finish in the top 10.  It makes Beith's achievements all the more remarkable.  I can see Hurlford and Troon begin to struggle next season. And John McKeown has done well getting Shotts up, but may find an uneven playing field when he gets there. 

Obviously clubs receiving financial backing and skewing the financial landscape isn't an alien concept to this level of football, but normally it's one club at a time and for a limited time.  It now seems to be the new norm.

 

Great post and it's quite sickening seeing lots of clubs doing it , none of the clubs in the current West premier are even near East kilbrides level yet through various reasons and I reckon east kilbride in their existence must be into multi millions in their pursuit of actually what? To gain access to a level of football that's ultimately goosed?

 

Loads of clubs are hammering money into it and for what exactly ?

[funky monkey]

https://kilwinningrangers.com/end-of-an-era-ben-lewis-calls-time-on-his-buffs-career/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1G8gnR-0fGew5VETY5GzdxrwmsntFyiKGQnW2iSfbAn9YVnbnJ1sh91VU_aem_AVSgCMt6jzO-yuTpA2SxZFiz-WH82EJLl9eif34x8a9of3FF9PeP3eCiqC5Wm-IlIBVX8O40mMtte5EJK8agwyY2

Surprised at this news. Ben is a Buffs legend. Thanks for your loyalty, 16 years is incredible in this day and age, good luck for the future. Mr Buffs always welcome back.

[funky monkey]

23 minutes ago, Thejackdaw said:

Great post and it's quite sickening seeing lots of clubs doing it , none of the clubs in the current West premier are even near East kilbrides level yet through various reasons and I reckon east kilbride in their existence must be into multi millions in their pursuit of actually what? To gain access to a level of football that's ultimately goosed?

 

Loads of clubs are hammering money into it and for what exactly ?

It's a good point. Vanity/ego in most cases. A lot of these clubs are barely clubs, with severely limited fan bases to enjoy whatever money is being chucked at their clubs.