2426255 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Big Fifer said: This is all correct. I was astonished at my twitter feed after the game/the day after with folk talking about how good he was. It was a fairly poor performance from Patterson. I must admit when watching him in person I thought he was struggling, but when I heard everyone raving about him then I just assumed it was because I was at the match and you get a different perspective watching the game on TV than in person. Equally I didn't think Kevin Nisbet was good in person, but watching his passes to both Gilmour and Patterson on TV I was open to the idea that he also played well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fifer Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 minute ago, 2426255 said: I must admit when watching him in person I thought he was struggling, but when I heard everyone raving about him then I just assumed it was because I was at the match and you get a different perspective watching the game on TV than in person. Equally I didn't think Kevin Nisbet was good in person, but watching his passes to both Gilmour and Patterson on TV I was open to the idea that he also played well. Maybe. I also thought Nisbet was dreadful but as you say, different perspective when you're watching the game in person from (where I was) a shite angle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, 2426255 said: If we were finishing 3rd consistently for maybe 2 or more campaigns and not challenging for the playoff or if we were finishing 4th or 5th then that would become a more compelling argument for me. As it stands we are doing okay and I find it acceptable and reasonable because it's about where we should be - not worse, not better. We finished third in our Euro 2020 qualifying group, we've already blown our first chance at a World Cup play off spot after we threw away our Nations League group and currently we are in 3rd position of our World Cup qualifying group and find ourselves in a position where we probably need to beat Austria away and Denmark at home to have any chance of second place. The only saving grace is our Nations League qualification for Euro 2020 but at what point does that stop carrying any weight? I'd suggest 10 matches since is a good enough measure. Like I've said before, I'm not 100% in the Clarke out camp, but I think it was a big risk giving him that contract extension. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resk Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said: I've never at any point said otherwise. He could be the second coming of Messi for all I know. The point is the general incredulity from certain people that I've never heard of a guy with three League starts to his name (and another half dozen Euro ones) in a division my club don't play in and in games which were not televised (not that I'd necessarily have watched them even if they had been). Actually his two starts last season were both cup games shown live on BBC Scotland - not that I think that means every fitba fan in Scotland should know who he is! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, AJF said: We finished third in our Euro 2020 qualifying group, we've already blown our first chance at a World Cup play off spot after we threw away our Nations League group and currently we are in 3rd position of our World Cup qualifying group and find ourselves in a position where we probably need to beat Austria away and Denmark at home to have any chance of second place. The only saving grace is our Nations League qualification for Euro 2020 but at what point does that stop carrying any weight? I'd suggest 10 matches since is a good enough measure. Like I've said before, I'm not 100% in the Clarke out camp, but I think it was a big risk giving him that contract extension. I don't think it's fair to blame Steve Clarke for finishing 3rd in our Euro 2020 qualifying, he had to come in and fix the sinking ship and in the end finishing 3rd was reasonable. It was disappointing to finish below the Czech Republic in the Nations League group, but overall it was probably about right. We got the breaks home and away against the Czech Republic, didn't get them away to Slovakia or Israel. A draw away to Austria is potentially enough and a win at home to either Israel will keep us with a fighters chance. Regardless we are well in contention as Israel have three tough away games and Austria are behind us. We are doing okay, I just don't see the big deal here - I'm upbeat about the situation, I'm realistic about the situation and I'm still getting people disagreeing. I'll need to learn to be more negative and less realistic to fit in here. Edited September 7, 2021 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, resk said: Actually his two starts last season were both cup games shown live on BBC Scotland - not that I think that means every fitba fan in Scotland should know who he is! I'm aware of that, though saw neither live. I probably did see the highlights but have no memory of Calvin Ramsay from them. I specifically referred to his League and European games season though, which presumably are why some people are touting him for a call up. Not what he did last year in a 1-0 win over the worst Dumbarton side in the last 15 years and a honking 3-0 home defeat by Dundee United. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuttonDressedAsLahm Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 58 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said: I said in the Motherwell thread that it's probably horses for courses and whilst I couldn't see O'Donnell aggressively winning the ball high up the pitch, leading to a goal, he's the better and more experienced defender and for that reason I'd play him tonight, obviously the choice has since been taken out of it since Patterson withdrew. I was quickly corrected that O'Donnell winning the ball high up the pitch created Fraser's goal in the 1-0 win against the Czechs at Hampden last year. You're misunderstanding, perhaps mistakenly. I have no issue with SOD. However, his ceiling is substantially lower than any other player in our otherwise normal starting XI. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, 2426255 said: I don't think it's fair to blame Steve Clarke for finishing 3rd in our Euro 2020 qualifying, he had to come in and fix the sinking ship and in the end finishing 3rd was reasonable. It was disappointing to finish below the Czech Republic in the Nations League group, but overall it was probably about right. We got the breaks home and away against the Czech Republic, didn't get them away to Slovakia or Israel. A draw away to Austria is potentially enough and a win at home to either Israel or Denmark I think. Regardless we are well in contention as Israel have three tough away games and Austria are behind us. We are doing okay, I just don't see the big deal here - I'm upbeat about the situation, I'm realistic about the situation and I'm still getting people disagreeing. I'll need to learn to be more negative and less realistic to fit in here. That's the thing though, there's nothing wrong with disagreeing. People have different opinions all the time, it's only when you start spouting off about "the hordes" and "can't penetrate their thick hides" or "be more negative and less realistic to fit in here" that people will start taking exception to your comments. Nobody is saying you need to change your opinion, just don't come across as all superior because you hold a different opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuttonDressedAsLahm Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, AJF said: We finished third in our Euro 2020 qualifying group, we've already blown our first chance at a World Cup play off spot after we threw away our Nations League group and currently we are in 3rd position of our World Cup qualifying group and find ourselves in a position where we probably need to beat Austria away and Denmark at home to have any chance of second place. The only saving grace is our Nations League qualification for Euro 2020 but at what point does that stop carrying any weight? I'd suggest 10 matches since is a good enough measure. Like I've said before, I'm not 100% in the Clarke out camp, but I think it was a big risk giving him that contract extension. If we beat Austria and Israel, then the only reason we'd need to beat Denmark was if Israel won in Denmark tonight. If we win tonight, and Israel lose - beating Israel, Moldova, and the Faroes guarantees second place. Again (not a point made by you) it puts the poor results against Austria and Israel earlier in the group into context. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, 2426255 said: I don't think it's fair to blame Steve Clarke for finishing 3rd in our Euro 2020 qualifying, he had to come in and fix the sinking ship and in the end finishing 3rd was reasonable. It was disappointing to finish below the Czech Republic in the Nations League group, but overall it was probably about right. We got the breaks home and away against the Czech Republic, didn't get them away to Slovakia or Israel. A draw away to Austria is potentially enough and a win at home to either Israel will keep us with a fighters chance. Regardless we are well in contention as Israel have three tough away games and Austria are behind us. We are doing okay, I just don't see the big deal here - I'm upbeat about the situation, I'm realistic about the situation and I'm still getting people disagreeing. I'll need to learn to be more negative and less realistic to fit in here. Mmm. I back Clarke and am happy to see him given more time. I agree with you on the first point and the 3rd. It's clearly a nonsense at this stage to say only wins in Austria and at home to Denmark will keep us alive in the WC qualifying. I do think the manager / players have to take some responsibility in blowing the Nations League group though. We were in an ideal position. We beat the group winners twice and failed to win the group because we won only 1 of the other 4 games. It was in some ways understandable but in the elation of the Euro qualifying we chucked away a huge opportunity to win the next Nations League group. Some of that was down to loss of focus in my opinion and management has responsibility in that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, AJF said: That's the thing though, there's nothing wrong with disagreeing. People have different opinions all the time, it's only when you start spouting off about "the hordes" and "can't penetrate their thick hides" or "be more negative and less realistic to fit in here" that people will start taking exception to your comments. Nobody is saying you need to change your opinion, just don't come across as all superior because you hold a different opinion. I don't respect many of the opinions on here and I like a good hardcore insulting debate with some humour in them especially with precious little snowflakes who can't handle it. Edited September 7, 2021 by 2426255 -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said: Mmm. I back Clarke and am happy to see him given more time. I agree with you on the first point and the 3rd. It's clearly a nonsense at this stage to say only wins in Austria and at home to Denmark will keep us alive in the WC qualifying. I do think the manager / players have to take some responsibility in blowing the Nations League group though. We were in an ideal position. We beat the group winners twice and failed to win the group because we won only 1 of the other 4 games. It was in some ways understandable but in the elation of the Euro qualifying we chucked away a huge opportunity to win the next Nations League group. Some of that was down to loss of focus in my opinion and management has responsibility in that. But we played particularly well in Slovakia and played reasonably in Israel. Watch the highlight even not the full games and tell me if you disagree. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said: If we beat Austria and Israel, then the only reason we'd need to beat Denmark was if Israel won in Denmark tonight. If we win tonight, and Israel lose - beating Israel, Moldova, and the Faroes guarantees second place. Again (not a point made by you) it puts the poor results against Austria and Israel earlier in the group into context. That's fair, but I did say "probably", not "definitely", on the basis that Israel in all likelihood beat Moldova and the Faroes in their remaining matches. With a 2 point lead on us already and a superior goal difference by 5, that would likely then require us to pick up 9 points from our remaining 5 games on the assumption that Israel do not pick up any further points in their other 3 matches. Then, if they do manage to pick up even a point from the other 3 matches, then we'd need 10 points from our last 5. If we assume we get 6 points from Moldova and the Faroes, that still leaves us requiring 4 from 3 matches vs Austria (A), Israel (H) and Denmark (H). I'm just not confident of that in all honesty. Edit to add: Maybe saying we probably need to beat both Austria and Denmark was incorrect, but I think we will need to beat at least one of them while also hoping to beat Israel which has been a problem for us. Edited September 7, 2021 by AJF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 I thought Patterson was really good going forward particularly in the first half, but really struggled defensively and looked like he would have been a liability against a better team. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 22 minutes ago, 2426255 said: I don't respect many of the opinions on here and I like a good hardcore insulting debate with some humour in them especially with precious little snowflakes who can't handle it. This statement is not surprising. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, AJF said: This statement is not surprising. Chill bro, take it eez-eh. It's not personal, just a bit of bants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 55 minutes ago, AJF said: Like I've said before, I'm not 100% in the Clarke out camp, but I think it was a big risk giving him that contract extension. Giving Clarke that extension is only a risk if you were having any thoughts of binning him prior to that. It's clear the SFA have found their man and are going to give him 5-10 years in the job if he wants it that long. I remain optimistic that he's the right guy for the job but I do think we need to see more progress than we have done recently. 10 minutes ago, eez-eh said: I thought Patterson was really good going forward particularly in the first half, but really struggled defensively and looked like he would have been a liability against a better team. I don't think anyone claims Patterson is the finished article right now but there's only 1 way his defending gets better and that's by playing him against decent opponents. Rangers first and foremost need to do their bit there but we could also aid the development by pitting him up against better sides rather than the walkover matches. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 54 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: I'm aware of that, though saw neither live. I probably did see the highlights but have no memory of Calvin Ramsay from them. I specifically referred to his League and European games season though, which presumably are why some people are touting him for a call up. Not what he did last year in a 1-0 win over the worst Dumbarton side in the last 15 years and a honking 3-0 home defeat by Dundee United. Nah, 2007/08 was far worse 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 hour ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said: If we beat Austria and Israel, then the only reason we'd need to beat Denmark was if Israel won in Denmark tonight. If we win tonight, and Israel lose - beating Israel, Moldova, and the Faroes guarantees second place. Again (not a point made by you) it puts the poor results against Austria and Israel earlier in the group into context. "Don't worry guys, there's no way Ireland will beat Germany!" I still remember the rumour going around our section that Germany had equalised that night, just as we were turning it round against Poland. Sad times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brummie Clyde Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Hoping we can somehow squeak 4 points from Austria and Israel and in the last game the Danes play their U11s against us, as they're already through 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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