VAR in Scottish Football

[The Nature Boy]

19 minutes ago, Crùbag said:

 

Heh! I loved that. The Hibees thought the goal was disallowed but they ended up getting punished for an infringement prior to it. A bùrach, aye, as goal should have stood - i.e. with the play on rule - but great entertainment.

 

I don't get your last point - scrap VAR and refs?

Maybe I'm missed a huge swathe of this thread but if people think VAR will be scrapped then they will be disappointed. The only options we have are to get better trained and unbiased officials officiating in all areas of a game. That, and more transparency - i.e. why are some shirt pulls in the box flagged up by VAR and not others?

In Scotland that has to be a massive problem in itself. The SFA/SPFL are notorious for their lack of transparency and consulting with fans in relation to any decisions being made. Just look at the purchase of Hampden and the recent pyro meetings all undertaken with no fan consultations. As far as I'm aware I've seen nothing from them that makes them think this is an issue or needs to be addressed.

We all know the answer to your question and the governing bodies know it as well. This is another factor in why we have this lack of transparency.

Unfortunately VAR is here to stay and nothing the fans say is going to change that. They will look at it and evolve it but their idea of improving it will just end up with more reliance on VAR with no thought to the match going fans.

[Dons_1988]

The reason it will never change is because we all shout into an echo chamber on the internet instead of doing anything about it. 

Fully include myself in that, I keep paying my money into an industry that does not have my interests or values in mind. They pursue their own objectives because it really doesn’t matter either way. 

[VincentGuerin]

3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

The reason it will never change is because we all shout into an echo chamber on the internet instead of doing anything about it. 

Fully include myself in that, I keep paying my money into an industry that does not have my interests or values in mind. They pursue their own objectives because it really doesn’t matter either way. 

There's an "after you" culture in Scotland. Our organised fan groups are wee dafties with drums rather than actual fan groups, so there's no focal point for action.

Take the issue of pricing. Not one supporter's group I've ever seen has floated a boycott. Not one match has been boycotted over the issue, not one away end left empty, and we've never even been close to it happening.

When VAR was introduced, that's when you need supporters' groups to step in and make the point that fans are being ignored. Yet, none do. No fans of any club.

We lack any kind of centralised groups or groups that take a bigger picture rather than "we like pyro and wearing matching tshirts".

I support a fucking fan-owned club, and my club didn't think it should ask us what we thought of VAR (or anything else), so what chances are there of actual consultation. It pains me to say this, but with the direction of travel, those of us who don't like it are basically just going to get left behind. I'm actually becoming fine with that. Fitba from VAR-level up is just losing its appeal. Easy to come across Mr Grumpy, but there's really a lot to dislike about it, and its redeeming features are becoming fewer.

[houston_bud]

3 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Fitba from VAR-level up is just losing its appeal. Easy to come across Mr Grumpy, but there's really a lot to dislike about it, and its redeeming features are becoming fewer.

I've always wondered if this was down to getting older or top level football becoming less appealing. It's probably a bit of both for me.

I couldn't tell you the last time I watched an entire Champions League match and I have no interest in it at all. I watch the occasional English Premier League game and might, from time to time, watch a bit of Match of the Day. But I used to be glued to this stuff. 

Other than St Mirren, the most football I watch is BBC Scotland's coverage of the Championship. 

VAR is only a part of this but it's making watching football worse.

[VincentGuerin]

2 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

I've always wondered if this was down to getting older or top level football becoming less appealing. It's probably a bit of both for me.

I couldn't tell you the last time I watched an entire Champions League match and I have no interest in it at all. I watch the occasional English Premier League game and might, from time to time, watch a bit of Match of the Day. But I used to be glued to this stuff. 

Other than St Mirren, the most football I watch is BBC Scotland's coverage of the Championship. 

VAR is only a part of this but it's making watching football worse.

Age changes how you view things, obviously. But I don't find I've lost my enthusiasm for fitba, just the higher level stuff.

Went to see my local non-league teams play a big game a couple of weeks ago. A few of us have been going along more recently over the last year or so. I looked forward to it all week and it was really enjoyable. I'm going along again this Saturday and am already really looking forward to it. Interestingly, none of the fans there I know are particularly keen to get into the EFL, as they know their enjoyment levels would drop.

There's been a gradual chipping away at the higher end of fitba over the last 30 years, and it's a shame what it's become.

 

[Dons_1988]

46 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

There's an "after you" culture in Scotland. Our organised fan groups are wee dafties with drums rather than actual fan groups, so there's no focal point for action.

Take the issue of pricing. Not one supporter's group I've ever seen has floated a boycott. Not one match has been boycotted over the issue, not one away end left empty, and we've never even been close to it happening.

When VAR was introduced, that's when you need supporters' groups to step in and make the point that fans are being ignored. Yet, none do. No fans of any club.

We lack any kind of centralised groups or groups that take a bigger picture rather than "we like pyro and wearing matching tshirts".

I support a fucking fan-owned club, and my club didn't think it should ask us what we thought of VAR (or anything else), so what chances are there of actual consultation. It pains me to say this, but with the direction of travel, those of us who don't like it are basically just going to get left behind. I'm actually becoming fine with that. Fitba from VAR-level up is just losing its appeal. Easy to come across Mr Grumpy, but there's really a lot to dislike about it, and its redeeming features are becoming fewer.

Absolutely, the only collective outrage that seemed to mobilise people that I can remember was 2012 and the attempts to shoehorn rangers straight into the top flight. It took a truly egregious act of abandoning principles for people to recognise what was happening. 

Introducing VAR is clearly not as shocking but it’s driven by the same broad outlook on how football should be run. 

I don’t hold out much hope that there will be any organisation any time soon. In fact I’d say it’s near on impossible. I’m similar to you, I’m not that far off 40, I’m far more likely to just walk away and do something else with my time than attempt to mobilise collective action. 

[Busta Nut]

1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said:

Our organised fan groups are wee dafties with drums rather than actual fan groups, so there's no focal point for action.

I like this. They are fighting for fireworks at the games rather than things that matter.

[rainbowrising]

1 hour ago, houston_bud said:

I've always wondered if this was down to getting older or top level football becoming less appealing. It's probably a bit of both for me.

I couldn't tell you the last time I watched an entire Champions League match and I have no interest in it at all. I watch the occasional English Premier League game and might, from time to time, watch a bit of Match of the Day. But I used to be glued to this stuff. 

Other than St Mirren, the most football I watch is BBC Scotland's coverage of the Championship. 

VAR is only a part of this but it's making watching football worse.

The Champions League has run out of gas for me. I pay little attention, especially to the league sections. Scottish football hasn't a hope in hell these days of producing a finalist. It's all just money. 

Celtic (or Rangers) could go out and lose every section game 10 nil and be treated as a laughing stock by us, yet pocket around £30m every season whilst doing so. Beyond tedious tournament now.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

I think I tuned out of the UCL about 10 years ago, apart from watching the Scottish teams get annihilated for a bit of a laugh.

English football maybe a few years after that.

So I'm down to the SPFL and below now, and that's fine. Top flight VAR leaves me just shaking my head; I'm dreading the day Falkirk have to regularly endure it*. We've had it once and had a nonsense penalty awarded against us. Very much not a fan tbpfhwy.

 

 

 

*Don't bother, please.

[Guest]

So sin bins and VAR to look at free kicks, second yellows and fucking corners, currently taking recommendations for other sports to watch because if these are implemented I'll not be watching that circus. 

[FK1Bairn]

1 hour ago, Empty It said:

So sin bins and VAR to look at free kicks, second yellows and fucking corners, currently taking recommendations for other sports to watch because if these are implemented I'll not be watching that circus. 

Lower or non league football is your go to in that case. If that proposed circus as you rightly describe it comes in then the game has gone. 

For me there's an issue in the use of VAR at the top level. The likes of Beaton, Collum, Clancy have got so used to it being there that it's now relied on for the big decisions yet as soon as they drop down into the Championship or League 1 for a game, VAR isn't there and they have to make the decision themselves. 

If the proposed use of VAR for corners etc comes in then they'd be as well removing the officials from the pitch and games will be refereed by a computer at Hampden

[EdinburghBlue]

On 28/11/2023 at 21:45, Willie adie said:

[VincentGuerin]

This article is mainly about the idea of sin bins, but it references VAR as well. It's a reasonable reflection on the odd behaiour of those running football. They seem to be trying to over-complicate the most popular team sport in the world. And I can't for the life of me understand why.

Rugby man sums up my view when he says:

"Once you start the process it is very hard to stop tinkering with it. They are tinkering with it all the time. One of the things that football has always had as its strength is that everyone can explain the rules within five minutes to your average new supporter and they will get it."

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/nov/29/exeter-rugby-union-rob-baxter-warns-football-to-be-careful-what-it-wishes-for-with-sin-bins

[Dirty Sanchez]

The NFL experience, in summary, was that instant replay was very unpopular and survived by the skin of its teeth for five years before finally being voted out of existence by the teams.

It came back seven years later, after a big rethink, in a vastly improved format that suited the game better.

I've no confidence that football will follow suit,

[SJFCtheTeamForMe]

On 29/11/2023 at 11:47, VincentGuerin said:

There's an "after you" culture in Scotland. Our organised fan groups are wee dafties with drums rather than actual fan groups, so there's no focal point for action.

Take the issue of pricing. Not one supporter's group I've ever seen has floated a boycott. Not one match has been boycotted over the issue, not one away end left empty, and we've never even been close to it happening.

When VAR was introduced, that's when you need supporters' groups to step in and make the point that fans are being ignored. Yet, none do. No fans of any club.

We lack any kind of centralised groups or groups that take a bigger picture rather than "we like pyro and wearing matching tshirts".

I support a fucking fan-owned club, and my club didn't think it should ask us what we thought of VAR (or anything else), so what chances are there of actual consultation. It pains me to say this, but with the direction of travel, those of us who don't like it are basically just going to get left behind. I'm actually becoming fine with that. Fitba from VAR-level up is just losing its appeal. Easy to come across Mr Grumpy, but there's really a lot to dislike about it, and its redeeming features are becoming fewer.

You're definitely correct. The wee FCU group of Saints fans tried to encourage debate on the ticket price issue. They had a banner etc about pricing around a game at Celtic Park I think and pricing in general but it was met with mostly ridicule from opposing fan bases due to people preferring the mindless tribal nonsense above all else. 

There was some incredibly weird responses from mostly Old Firm fans tbh along the lines of "you should be willing to pay whatever it takes to support your team" - that is EXACTLY how you end up having the piss taken out of you prices wise and prices end up with the prices like the League Cup final having to push for concessions in certain areas of the ground etc

You're also correct about the fan group aspect or lack of. Only talking about my own experience but different groups of fans within my club somewhat struggle to be on the same page, never mind across clubs

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by SJFCtheTeamForMe

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

Classic bit of VAR today.

Dennis for Killie and Paton for Motherwell both booked for a high swipe that caught the oncoming opponent. One incident sent for review and upgraded, the other ignored.

 

[Austin McCann]

VAR is not the problem, it's the arseholes(cheats) operating it.

[Desp]

13 hours ago, Austin McCann said:

VAR is not the problem, it's the arseholes(cheats) operating it.

Once again, "VAR" isn't a machine. It's the Video Assistant Referee. There is no "operating it". 

The Harry Paton incident for Motherwell today showed why I'm losing interest in VAR-led top flight football these days. 

The referee was 5 yards away from the challenge today. He sees it, gives Dundee a foul and books the Motherwell player. Job done. No Dundee player is screaming in the face of the ref for a red, which is what you'd do if you're convinced. Why is this being re-refereed by a guy in a control room in Glasgow? The on-field referee didn't miss anything, he simply had a different opinion. Going down that road where they're flip flopping over subjective decisions is going to kill the game. 

Get the whole thing to f**k. 

[The Master]

7 minutes ago, Desp said:

Once again, "VAR" isn't a machine. It's the Video Assistant Referee. There is no "operating it". 

The Harry Paton incident for Motherwell today showed why I'm losing interest in VAR-led top flight football these days. 

The referee was 5 yards away from the challenge today. He sees it, gives Dundee a foul and books the Motherwell player. Job done. No Dundee player is screaming in the face of the ref for a red, which is what you'd do if you're convinced. Why is this being re-refereed by a guy in a control room in Glasgow? The on-field referee didn't miss anything, he simply had a different opinion. Going down that road where they're flip flopping over subjective decisions is going to kill the game. 

Get the whole thing to f**k. 

In fairness, the referee is always called to the monitor before a subjective decision is made, so he always has the option of standing by his decision. 

However, the issue with that was laid bare at yesterday’s game. You have a referee doing his first Premiership game being called to the monitor by a referee on the FIFA list who has done over 100 Premiership games.

That’s a terrible power imbalance, and I honestly don’t think you can blame the referee for changing the colour of the card. 

[KingswellsRed]

With 86% of fans saying VAR is reducing their enjoyment of football in a Scottish survey, how do we get this removed from our game?