VAR in Scottish Football

[kingjoey]

1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said:

No, he’s right. There’s loads of decisions, particularly ones like handball that are a judgement call. 

I wouldn’t have it at all, but if VAR came in I would take the rule further and say VAR can only see each camera angle once and if they can’t determine a mistake then play should be restarted and you go with the refs decision.  

I would still argue that most decisions should be able to be cleared up by the VAR looking at them, including handballs. But, for whatever reason, they're not. Which is why it's a big no for me still. 

[kingjoey]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

That would make it a "clear and obvious error" if it wasn't given then. The point is that if there's a contentious decision, for example a lunging tackle that some people think is a red and others think is a yellow, then VAR shouldn't be getting involved.

So why is the wording not to get to the right decision. The "right decision" is then in the hands of the VAR which is how it should be or why have the system there in the first place. 

[Dons_1988]

6 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

I would still argue that most decisions should be able to be cleared up by the VAR looking at them, including handballs. But, for whatever reason, they're not. Which is why it's a big no for me still. 

You’d then have to make the handball rule something draconian that if it hits your hand in any circumstances then it’s a penalty, which I doubt anyone wants? 

[Alert Mongoose]

24 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Not so sure that's the case.

Ah well. RIP Les.

[Mr Heliums]

7 minutes ago, Donathan said:

I’d appeal to you to think back to the Israel game at Hampden a few months back. We are 2-1 down and Lyndon Dykes scores a perfectly good goal which the referee chalks off because and books Dykes for high feet. In a no VAR world, we remain 2-1 down and Dykes is wrongfully suspended …

For six months you've returned to this incident and its potential ramifications as if it single-handedly justifies VAR. (You've always skated over the awkward argument that VAR could legitimately have ruled out our winner in the same game.)

You are at least consistent in your beliefs: that football is 'too hard' to referee in real time' and that, rather than fans celebrating when the ball hits the net, they should hold their excitement until the VAR check is complete. According to you, VAR adds to fans' excitement, an opinion you've reached without ever having been to a game with VAR.

Your idea of football is one I couldn't live with - or at least couldn't pay to watch live. To me, our game, already a hostage to TV analysis as the push for VAR continues, will be fundamentally degraded as a spectator sport. I'll lose forever the rush of excitement that follows a goal or a even a controversial decision, and for what? Some utopian, impossible ambition for correctness, or a more nuanced and calculated interpretation? I don't want that, because I don't watch my team rationally. Who does, apart from the disinterested pundit, or the armchair supporter? 

[Donathan]

5 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

For six months you've returned to this incident and its potential ramifications as if it single-handedly justifies VAR. (You've always skated over the awkward argument that VAR could legitimately have ruled out our winner in the same game.)

You are at least consistent in your beliefs: that football is 'too hard' to referee in real time' and that, rather than fans celebrating when the ball hits the net, they should hold their excitement until the VAR check is complete. According to you, VAR adds to fans' excitement, an opinion you've reached without ever having been to a game with VAR.

Your idea of football is one I couldn't live with - or at least couldn't pay to watch live. To me, our game, already a hostage to TV analysis as the push for VAR continues, will be fundamentally degraded as a spectator sport. I'll lose forever the rush of excitement that follows a goal or a even a controversial decision, and for what? Some utopian, impossible ambition for correctness, or a more nuanced and calculated interpretation? I don't want that, because I don't watch my team rationally. Who does, apart from the disinterested pundit, or the armchair supporter? 

It didn’t. And you know why? Because it was a perfectly legitimate goal. VAR checked it and found nothing wrong with it and therefore the goal was allowed to stand.

 

I have attended a couple of games in England that have used VAR in the past couple of months. One had no checks whatsoever. The other used VAR to confirm the referee’s decision to award a penalty. The penalty was probably held up by 60-90 seconds while VAR checked and confirmed the decision. 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

If there is no "right decision" how can you judge if an "obvious error" has been made?

[craigkillie]

So why is the wording not to get to the right decision. The "right decision" is then in the hands of the VAR which is how it should be or why have the system there in the first place. 

No, the stated purpose of VAR is to correct game-changing errors from the referee, not to have someone else re-referee the entire game. Video Assistant Referees, just like the on-pitch assistant referees, are there to assist, and the on-pitch referee still has full authority over decision making.

If the ref makes a decision in real time, VAR should only be getting involved if it is a big obvious mistake, not just if someone disagrees slightly.

[craigkillie]

If there is no "right decision" how can you judge if an "obvious error" has been made?

Exactly. If there's no obvious "right decision" then you stick with what the ref did at the time. If there is an obvious "right decision" then you go with that.

[kingjoey]

5 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

No, the stated purpose of VAR is to correct game-changing errors from the referee, not to have someone else re-referee the entire game. Video Assistant Referees, just like the on-pitch assistant referees, are there to assist, and the on-pitch referee still has full authority over decision making.

If the ref makes a decision in real time, VAR should only be getting involved if it is a big obvious mistake, not just if someone disagrees slightly.

I think everyone knows what parts of the game VAR looks at and no one is saying that the game needs to be re-refereed.  Just asking that the things that VAR is supposed to look at, mainly incidents in the penalty box and offsides, are done correctly no matter what the on-pitch referee says. If it's wrong, it's wrong regardless if it is a clear and obvious error.

[Left Back]

2 hours ago, kingjoey said:

The question the VAR will ask is not "has the right decision been reached?" but "has the referee or his assistant made an obvious error?" and/or "has the referee missed a serious incident?".

 

This is what I don’t understand. Why is the VAR not asking, has the right decision been reached? Surely if you’re going to have the system, it has to be used to get to the right decision and not to try to determine whether or not the officials have made an obvious error. And what is considered to be a serious incident? No wonder it’s a f*ck*ng shambles.

Isn't that what they did in England the first season they had VAR and it was a bit of a shambles with the VAR re-reffing the game and the on field ref appearing to be bottling decisions?

[Donathan]

Whilst I’m on record as saying I support VAR, I do think they should change from having an actual video referee in the refs ear to a challenge system like that used in tennis. Managers can throw a ref flag onto the pitch to challenge any decision they like (even something as simple as which team should be given a throw in), however they only have two red flags and one is removed each team they incorrectly challenge a decision.

 

This would remove the need for every single goal to be reviewed and add an extra layer of strategy into the game (Should I challenge this potential free kick on the edge of the box or keep my last flag for a bigger one later?) 

[Zamora Fan]

How many clubs have consulted the fans on the vote? Is it just Livi and Motherwell in the top flight?

Didn’t expect anything from Saints given Brown runs the club like a Middle Eastern autocracy but surely a bit shit if the other fan owned clubs haven’t bothered to check in with their season ticket holders?

[Busta Nut]

11 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said:

How many clubs have consulted the fans on the vote? Is it just Livi and Motherwell in the top flight?

Didn’t expect anything from Saints given Brown runs the club like a Middle Eastern autocracy but surely a bit shit if the other fan owned clubs haven’t bothered to check in with their season ticket holders?

Although 'Well fans were asked to Email their opinions, Board members voted on their thoughts regardless of what was said, however I did hear a murmur that emails were mostly for VAR.

Which I find baffling.

[Donathan]

9 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Although 'Well fans were asked to Email their opinions, Board members voted on their thoughts regardless of what was said, however I did hear a murmur that emails were mostly for VAR.

Which I find baffling.

People don’t like their team getting screwed out of results by poor officiating decisions and VAR is an obvious fix for that. 

[Dons_1988]

I don’t get how folk have had the chance to see VAR in action elsewhere and still want it. 

Hell mend them and they’ll get the sport they deserve. 

[Donathan]

15 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I don’t get how folk have had the chance to see VAR in action elsewhere and still want it. 

Hell mend them and they’ll get the sport they deserve. 

The mood music is that this proposal is going to pass easily.

 

Pleasing. 

[Dons_1988]

Just now, Donathan said:

The mood music is that this proposal is going to pass easily.

 

Pleasing. 

It will. Hope you enjoy it. 

[Donathan]

9 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

It will. Hope you enjoy it. 

Just looking forward to being able to watch games safe in the knowledge that it can’t be rigged in favour of sevco anymore 

[ArabFC]

3 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Just looking forward to being able to watch games safe in the knowledge that it can’t be rigged in favour of sevco anymore 

Hilarious