God Save The Queen

[Bishop Briggs]

10 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

It's funny how right wing Christians say it's the New Testament that's important when it comes to eating ham sandwiches and wanking, but they're all over the few times homosexuality is mentioned in the old testament.

As an atheist, I have to point out other religions (especially Islam) regard homosexuality as a sin.  Then there is the thorny issue of the age of consent which has been historically low in many European countries.

September 2013 - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/04/spain-raises-age-of-consent.  "Spain is to raise the age of consent from 13 to 16 and the minimum age for marriage from 14 to 16."

[Duries Air Freshener]

12 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I always find it amusing that people who don't like being presented with quotes from the Bible that they don't like claim that they are "out of context".  Odd; you'd have thought they'd regard it as gospel. 

Still, takes all sorts. At least (most) Christians don't murder people due to differences in interpretation - well, not for a while now anyway.  Watch out for "exorcisms" , though. They can turn a bit nasty. 

I always find it amusing when people mischaracterise someone taking issue with out of context quotes as not regarding such quotes as gospel in and of themselves.

Takes all sorts, I suppose!

[dirty dingus]

3 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

As an atheist, I have to point out other religions (especially Islam) regard homosexuality as a sin.  Then there is the thorny issue of the age of consent which has been historically low in many European countries.

September 2013 - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/04/spain-raises-age-of-consent.  "Spain is to raise the age of consent from 13 to 16 and the minimum age for marriage from 14 to 16."

I do believe the top man of Islam was also a paedophile but mentioning this to Islamic scholars may lead to problems. 

[welshbairn]

17 minutes ago, BFTD said:

You could say that about any book though. American Psycho taught me all sorts about the morality of making sausages.

The whole point is supposed to be that it's...well, gospel. The only reason for following anything in the Bible is because it's what Our Lord wants you to do. If It wanted you to do otherwise, surely They'd have made a big show of wanting it updated.

Y'know, like how The Big Yin delivered L. Ron Hubbard unto us, to show us the new path to the stars.

I know quite a few good people who are Christians, Catholics who aren't anti abortion or contraception and Free Presbyterians who will say goodbye to a friend at a Catholic funeral. It's treating religion like science, literal truth that fucks people up. There's nothing wrong with listening to the good stuff and ignoring the medieval.

[Duries Air Freshener]

8 minutes ago, Zern said:

That's going back a few years. iirc the internet had this debate and the Christians lost.

[Salt n Vinegar]

The list of "offences" mentioned in the Bible which carry the death penalty is so extensive it would give a Texan State Governor wet dreams.  As I think Bill Maher once put it, its a case of (something like) 'more people get stoned in the Bible than in my jacuzzi". 

Those dudes who pulled the books together and decided what to include in or leave out have a lot to answer for. The divine word of the creator of the universe appears to be pretty inconsistent. 

[Jacksgranda]

9 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

The list of "offences" mentioned in the Bible which carry the death penalty is so extensive it would give a Texan State Governor wet dreams.  As I think Bill Maher once put it, its a case of (something like) 'more people get stoned in the Bible than in my jacuzzi". 

Those dudes who pulled the books together and decided what to include in or leave out have a lot to answer for. The divine word of the creator of the universe appears to be pretty inconsistent. 

Not really - his enemies got smoted (smitten?). That's fairly consistent from Genesis to Malachi. If you stepped out of line - KABOOM.

New Testament is a bit more nuanced.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Jacksgranda
Sleppnig

[Zern]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I know quite a few good people who are Christians, Catholics who aren't anti abortion or contraception and Free Presbyterians who will say goodbye to a friend at a Catholic funeral. It's treating religion like science, literal truth that fucks people up. There's nothing wrong with listening to the good stuff and ignoring the medieval.

My grandparents left the free kirk when they lost a child before they were baptised. Doctrine was that unbaptised=damned. The burial on sacred ground was denied.

Very shitty. Doctrinally consistent, but shitty nonetheless.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

You understand the meaning of literally, right?
Your the one following/stalking me through a forum you utter wierdo. Par for the course in Forfar i guess. 

Stalking [emoji23]

I guess you're probably an expert tbf

[Zern]

11 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

Quote

"The person who follows the pursuit of reason unflinchingly toward its end will be atheistic or, at best, agnostic." ~ William Lane Craig

 

[Duries Air Freshener]

4 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

The list of "offences" mentioned in the Bible which carry the death penalty is so extensive it would give a Texan State Governor wet dreams.  As I think Bill Maher once put it, its a case of (something like) 'more people get stoned in the Bible than in my jacuzzi". 

Those dudes who pulled the books together and decided what to include in or leave out have a lot to answer for. The divine word of the creator of the universe appears to be pretty inconsistent. 

Instead of hanging on the words of that great bastion of the soundbite wisdom Bill Maher, who ironically enough will be classed as a 'genital inspector' according to P&B standards, it'd be wise to look up the offences/bible yourself, to find out why Christians don't advocate the death penalty for them.

Unless you hold gotchas and flippancy as virtues, in which case such research would be futile

[Duries Air Freshener]

8 minutes ago, Zern said:

My grandparents left the free kirk when they lost a child before they were baptised. Doctrine was that unbaptised=damned. The burial on sacred ground was denied.

Very shitty. Doctrinally consistent, but shitty nonetheless.

As a member of the Free Church, I can categorically confirm that the doctrine isn't that unbaptised = damned.

I strongly suspect it never has been, and that something has been misinterpreted in conversation.

[Duries Air Freshener]

13 minutes ago, Zern said:

 

Quote

Well, Bill, I don't think I've ever seen anything taken out of context that hard. [laughter] Now, all of these bloggers have come back and said, “OK, we're sorry, we really did take him out of context.” And he's been corrected by their own peers and other atheists have come to your defense and saying, “How dare you take him out of context like that. You know, we accuse people of quote-mining and taking people out of context. This is a blatant example of that.” Reasonable Faith, some of the people who help us answer some of the questions and interact online, have also written and straightened it out.

Dr. Craig: That's good.

Kevin Harris: So, two things: first, explain the context of what you were saying here.

Dr. Craig: Well, ironically this is from an article on arguments for the existence of God and the renaissance of natural theology in our day, and it explains how so many philosophers have recently defended arguments for the existence of God, including the cosmological, teleological, moral and ontological arguments. So the whole article is about how the pursuit of reason and evidence will lead to theistic conclusions. It's quite astonishing that anyone could think that this sentence is a fair representation of the view when the whole article was to quite the opposite conclusion.

Does Reason Lead to Atheism or Theism? | Podcast | Reasonable Faith

Nice try though

Edited June 5, 2022 by Duries Air Freshener

[parsforlife]

29 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

It's treating religion like science, 

Religion comes from science!  our personal believes come from what we observe, measure and theorise. Science isn't absolute truth, its the pursuit of it.

4 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

Does Reason Lead to Atheism or Theism? | Podcast | Reasonable Faith

Nice try though

Don't quote blatent biased sources, it makes you look like a c**t fyi

[Duries Air Freshener]

10 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Religion comes from science!  our personal believes come from what we observe, measure and theorise. Science isn't absolute truth, its the pursuit of it.

Don't quote blatent biased sources, it makes you look like a c**t fyi

Mate, do you even know what it's about?  The podcast/article is by the guy who made the quote lol.

Won't lower myself to your level by throwing sweary insults though.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Duries Air Freshener

[parsforlife]

13 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

Mate, do you even know what it's about?  The podcast/article is by the guy who made the quote lol.

Won't lower myself to your level by throwing sweary insults though.

What is what about? You produced a bullshit Quote and backed it up with a bullshit article.

Twist your morality however you like but a couple of swear words have far more integrity than believing people who don't believe the same as you deserve to burn forever

[Duries Air Freshener]

3 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

What is what about? You produced a bullshit Quote and backed it up with a bullshit article.

Twist your morality however you like but a couple of swear words have far more integrity than believing people who don't believe the same as you deserve to burn forever

I didn't produce the quote.  Zern did, and I linked the article podcast/article from the man in question to show the correct context.

I also don't believe people who don't believe the same as me burn forever, or indeed deserve to.

Jings, crivvens, help ma' boab.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Duries Air Freshener

[Zern]

24 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

Does Reason Lead to Atheism or Theism? | Podcast | Reasonable Faith

Nice try though

He's being quoted verbatim. It comes from his book Reasonable Faith where he gives his version of the KCA, amongst other arguments then concedes that there needs to be something more to get to the Jesusy religion he prefers. He uses scripture. That's the Faith part of Reasonable Faith, you get it?

Out of context lol. You're too dumb to spot the fallacies and the man's chosen profession of Christian apologist. aka Spin-doctor for Jesus.

Lennox's moment was when he backed a form of Christian Science to be taught in classrooms in the UK, until the various scientific bodies told him in no uncertain terms that this "intelligent design" was unscientific and on a par with astrology. We don't teach that crap in science class.

Christianity gets very silly, very quickly.

[Salt n Vinegar]

41 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said:

Instead of hanging on the words of that great bastion of the soundbite wisdom Bill Maher, who ironically enough will be classed as a 'genital inspector' according to P&B standards, it'd be wise to look up the offences/bible yourself, to find out why Christians don't advocate the death penalty for them.

Unless you hold gotchas and flippancy as virtues, in which case such research would be futile

As I understand it Jesus said that he was there not to do away with the old laws, but to fulfil them. I admit that it's a bit difficult to understand the meaning of the words of creator of the universe who, of course is all good, unless he's not in which case he is moving in mysterious ways. Doesn't stop those who claim to understand them of course or even those who claim to know his/her/its nature telling fellow beings how to live their lives. 

Anyway, if being at Sunday School, the Cubs and having a father who was an Elder in the CofS couldn't impress me with religious BS, you may rest assured that you, most certainly, are not up to the task. I don't know what it would take to make me believe such nonsense, but presumably your all knowing and wise God does, but has chosen not to provide it.  

[Duries Air Freshener]

1 minute ago, Zern said:

He's being quoted verbatim. It comes from his book Reasonable Faith where he gives his version of the KCA, amongst other arguments then concedes that there needs to be something more to get to the Jesusy religion he prefers. He uses scripture. That's the Faith part of Reasonable Faith, you get it?

Out of context lol. You're too dumb to spot the fallacies and the man's chosen profession of Christian apologist. aka Spin-doctor for Jesus.

Lennox's moment was when he backed a form of Christian Science to be taught in classrooms in the UK, until the various scientific bodies told him in no uncertain terms that this "intelligent design" was unscientific and on a par with astrology. We don't teach that crap in science class.

Christianity gets very silly, very quickly.

It may be verbatim, but it's still out of context, and as he explains many atheists have even said as much.

Unfortunately for you, your claim of the point of the quote being that there needs to be something more to become a Christian is also incorrect.  He actually said it to describe what he thinks is the current cultural milieu and the attitude of most Western intellectuals.

Please forgive me if I don't take your claim about John Lennox seriously, as you've not covered yourself in glory thus far.