Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Boo Khaki]

Sure NS will be devastated at no being able to nip to Tomsk for a wee city break during the trades fortnight.

[sparky88]

3 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Nicola Sturgeon has also been sanctioned by Russia.

Thoughts with Mark Drakeford at this terrible time.

[welshbairn]

On 15/04/2022 at 16:46, Wee Bully said:

The last English invasion of Scotland was 1650. 

They sent tanks up to George Square in 1919.

[Suspect Device]

27 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

They sent tanks up to George Square in 1919.

That's supposedly a bit of an urban myth.

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

That's supposedly a bit of an urban myth.

 

Quote

During that meeting Munro, Secretary for Scotland, described the demonstration as "a Bolshevist uprising". It was decided to deploy troops from Scotland and Northern England: troops from the local Maryhill barracks were not deployed because it was feared that men there might have sided with their neighbours.[20] General Sir Charles Harington, the Deputy Chief of the Imperial General Staff informed the meeting that 6 tanks supported by 100 lorries were "going north that evening".[19] It was stated that up to 12,000 troops could be deployed.

It is sometimes suggested that the War Cabinet ordered this deployment, but this is incorrect: the government lacked the authority to deploy troops against British civilians without declaring martial law, which was not declared. The War Cabinet discussed the issue but the military deployment was in response to the request from the Sheriff of Lanarkshire.[18]

The first troops arrived that night,[21] with their numbers increasing over the next few days. The six Medium Mark C tanks, of the Royal Tank Regiment arrived from Bovington on Monday 3 February.[22] Machine gun nests were placed in George Square. The Observer newspaper reported that "The city chambers is like an armed camp.'The quadrangle is full of troops and equipment, including machine guns."[20]

The military arrived after the rioting was over and they played no active role in dispersing the protesters.[18] The troops guarded locations of import to the civil authorities throughout the period of the strike, which lasted until 12 February. The troops and tanks then remained in Glasgow, and its surrounding areas, until 18 February.[23]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_George_Square

[sophia]

 

@welshbairn said that thanks were sent north.

This was contested as myth.

Verdict: true

[Suspect Device]

14 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_George_Square

There is a debate around that. I was just studying the George Square riots in January for a course. I'd always believed the tanks story but it's not true. Manny Shindwell seemed to be over egging his memoirs.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Suspect Device

[ICTChris]

I’m sure I’ve posted it elsewhere but all the political people in Scotland that have been pushing the ‘Bucha was a false flag’ etc lines have been either members of or linked to the Alba Party, who famously have a low opinion of Nicola Sturgeon.

At least one of the main purveyors of this is a convicted perjurer and notorious fantasist and liar though. 

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Suspect Device said:

There is a debate around that. I was just studying the George Square riots in January for a course. I'd always believed the tanks story but it's not true. Manny Shindwell seemed to be over egging his memoirs.

From @sophia 's link. Looks like the tanks were sent but never needed.

Quote

The first of 10,000 infantry troops began to arrive around 10pm on Friday night. The six tanks arrived the following Monday, but never left the shed in which they were stored. The deployment of so large a force was almost immediately recognised as overreaction. Some have suggested, and it is my own belief, that the army, with no reliable information on which to base its plans, prepared for the worst situation it might face—a re-run of the 1916 Easter Rising in Dublin. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by welshbairn

[Boo Khaki]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

From @sophia 's link. Looks like the tanks were sent but never needed.

I have doubts over whether that photograph is what it purports to be. (I'm a tank nerd)

All the accounts state '6x Medium Mark C' tanks were sent to Glasgow, and in the background between the tank on the right of the shot, and the tank in the centre, is what is clearly the left-hand side of a Mark IV.

So unless the Mark C's were joined in the Gallowgate by Mark IV's, or the reports of only Mark C's being sent north are inaccurate, then that photo isn't what is always claimed.

Interestingly, there was at least one Mark IV present in Glasgow the year previously on a drive to get the public to invest in War Bonds, but the Mark C wasn't in inventory until 1919, so I suspect the truth is that the Mark C's were joined by Mark IV's, and this has just never been documented or it's been forgotten about down the years.

[velo army]

On 15/04/2022 at 11:17, Hedgecutter said:

I remember when playing Age of Empires that I'd get a bit bored if everything was going along peacefully.  I'd therefore summon a 'big daddy' and lay into the Hittites or some other mob just for a bit of interest, and then take the last bit of land off the Shang just to complete the island. 

Usually I'd only kill the military and keep the civilians to be converted into farmers by my priests, but then kill the f***ing lot of them with photon men if I made a stupid move that lost me my prized assets.

I suspect that Putin has a bit of the Hedgecutter mentality in him.

He should just ask you where Zelenskyi is rather than relying on his tin pot intelligence services.

[jagfox]

 

[dirty dingus]

A British journalist in Ukraine says the offer by Russia to let the forces surrender and be treated in accordance with the Geneva convention only applies to the marines and that Azov are fair game. The journalist says he doubts they'll surrender. He also states that it's the Russians and Chechens that's trying to flush them out of the steel works.  

[highlandcowden]

On 15/04/2022 at 20:33, BFTD said:

Not seen it (but soon will), but I assume that's about the NATO exercises that the Russians decided were a ruse to cover an imminent nuclear attack.

IIRC, the Yanks had no idea that, for some time, Russia had been operating under the assumption that a nuclear attack would likely begin with fake military exercises of the type that were taking place  

I read a book about that-apparantly the soviets had a check list that,if complete,meant an overwhelming nuclear strike was imminent.this list was nearly complete&one of the last checks was NATO exercises where the codes being listened in on all changed suddenly near the climax of the exercise,which I believe happened in the final 24 hours of able archer

[Bairnardo]

I see the daft lad is at the threats again re arming Ukraine. At this point it all seems a bit more "bully rhetoric" than slightly terrifying, but I did at the outset of this somewhat question the wisdom of the apparent need to shout about every weapon we send them etc.

I mean, I am sure the Russians would have an idea who was arming Ukraine with what, but was there any need to bray about it ok social media?

[LongTimeLurker]

Guess if they didn't do that and an American Reaper drone suddenly appeared out of nowhere and took out an oil depot in Belgorod it would look more like direct involvement than sending weapons. If those do get sent though from what I understand there would be no way for the Russians to be able to tell whether it was being actively controlled from Ukraine or by NATO forces. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by LongTimeLurker

[dirty dingus]

6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Guess if they didn't do that and an American Reaper drone suddenly appeared out of nowhere and took out an oil depot in Belgorod it would look more like direct involvement than sending weapons. If those do get sent though from what I understand there would be now way for the Russians to be able to tell whether it was being actively controlled from Ukraine or by NATO forces. 

Maybe they're telling Putin that they will continue to supply throughout his "special operation" to try force his hand to agree a ceasefire/deal.

[Salt n Vinegar]

10 minutes ago, throbber said:

Russia is basically the guy from school who you thought was hard but eventually you see him on nights out as a drunken loner who nobody wants to talk to, who starts fights with his own shadow, gets knocked back from everyone woman going and eventually serves time in jail for assaulting his own mother.

You raise the "what next for Russia?" question. 

Even if the "special military operation" stopped today, what next? Russia's International reputation is in the gutter.  A sizeable proportion of the planet's governments and large sections of the population wouldn't piss on it if it was on fire. It's like a larger North Korea combined with the worst excesses of apartheid South Africa and the press and personal freedoms of China. 

Many countries are accelerating their non-Russia dependent energy programmes and I can't see economic sanctions being lifted any time soon.  Would Putin "going", actually be enough? 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

32 minutes ago, throbber said:

^^^
And owns a Staffordshire bull terrier

Belarus.

[ICTChris]

No idea who this guy is but he makes some good points about a Russian mechanised assault in the Donbas and the difficulty they would face.