Wee Bully Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said: Care to explain how the window of opportunity for, and I quote, "calming this down" was not immediately before / after it started but rather 7 months down the line? Sorry Vlad. It was your “the West chose aggression instead” quote that i was talking about. Absolute minter for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 Just now, oaksoft said: Still can't find it within yourself to condemn Russia for invading a sovereign nation, mass murder of civilians, mass rape, torture, and forcing people to vote for them in rigged referenda in occupied territories eh? What would Russia have to do to receive your criticism? Stating that the window of opportunity for calming aggression in a war is immediately before / after it starts is an objective statement. It's not taking either side. I don't pretend to know enough about the political intricacies of the countries of the formier Soviet Union to take a side, which is why I've not done so. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 5 minutes ago, Wee Bully said: Sorry Vlad. It was your “the West chose aggression instead” quote that i was talking about. Absolute minter for you. But they did, though. They chose to sanction one side whilst supplying weapons to the other. They then actively discouraged peace talks. That is choosing aggression. Whether or not you agree with the motivations for doing so doesn't change that. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said: But they did, though. They chose to sanction one side whilst supplying weapons to the other. They then actively discouraged peace talks. That is choosing aggression. Whether or not you agree with the motivations for doing so doesn't change that. Ok mate. Enjoy your night. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Around Lyman the word appears to be that the northern road in to Drobysheve is now cut off at Stavky, while to the south Yampil may or may not have been liberated with the road in now mined. ...but Vlad is about to annex Donetsk oblast so the Russians obviously have nothing to worry about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 It's all very well saying "the time for Peace Talks was in February" but at the time Putin had already broken several of the promises he'd already made in the Minsk Agreement. Russia had build up a massive force on Ukraine's borders (and not just on the borders of the Donbass). Russia had decided to recognise the two breakaway Republics without any arbitration or negotiations with Ukraine (and of course during that bizarre council of ministers meeting that was televised, one of the ministers let the cat out the bag, not that it was well hidden, when he said he supported absorbing them into the Russian Federation). Russia then, rather than supporting these breakaway "Republics" attacked Kyiv and overthrow the government. At which point during all this does anyone think would have been a sensible time to hold peace talks, given that one side in particular was not interested in peace in any way shape or form that didn't involve a land grab and regime change to a puppet government at the very least, and the complete annihilation and absorption of Ukraine (and Transnistria) into Russia at the most? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Most of what you state there is correct, but 1) The 'promises' of the Minsk Agreement were being broken on both sides. The failure of both parties to find a reasonable co-existence was an important background cause of - but not a justification for - the military conflict. 2) The best time to secure peace is always before the guns start firing and blood is spilled - so it remains the case that February was the best opportunity to do that. There has been no serious effort to deescalate so far from any interested party - which is why we're hurtling into a very risky situation with probable annexations being declared. The chances of a peaceful settlement might have been low then - they're practically zero in the short-term from here. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 10 hours ago, oaksoft said: Still can't find it within yourself to condemn Russia for invading a sovereign nation, mass murder of civilians, mass rape, torture, and forcing people to vote for them in rigged referenda in occupied territories eh? 10 hours ago, Todd_is_God said: I don't pretend to know enough about the political intricacies of the countries of the formier Soviet Union to take a side, which is why I've not done so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 11 hours ago, Todd_is_God said: I don't pretend to know enough about the political intricacies of the countries of the formier Soviet Union to take a side, which is why I've not done so. You pretend to know loads of stuff about topics you patently know f**k all about, so why are you drawing the line here? 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Battle of Halbe time near Lyman? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Some talk that the direct placement of conscripts came direct from Putin overriding the military top brass and Russian law. Apparently was in direct line with front line command structures rather than going through proper channels. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Tom Nichols an expert on Russia and nuclear policies has 10 minutes covering those topics. https://youtu.be/OVvapGIrym8?t=2089 Short take away. The silly election results were a demonstration of power not legitimacy. The nuclear option is unlikely but needs to be discussed seriously. He cites a possible use case that is known as "escalate to deescalate". Simply raising the stakes so much people have to deal with him. The strongest argument against it is his few friends in the world would drop him like a hot rock. He also talks about a possible reason for the mobilisation as to put so much Russian blood into the Ukrainian soil that Russians feel compelled to honour that sacrifice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Kremlin rolling back a bit on nuclear threats. Quote According to the Russian nuclear doctrine (the Fundamentals of Russia’s Nuclear Deterrence State Policy, approved in 2020) the country may use nuclear weapons if the enemy uses this or other types of weapons of mass destruction against Russia and its allies, reliable information about the launch of ballistic missiles to attack Russia and its allies is received, the enemy strikes facilities necessary for retaliatory actions of nuclear force, and in case of aggression against Russia using conventional weapons, when the existence of the state itself is threatened. Presumably that means more than Ukraine kicking them out of Kherson. ‘Irresponsible’: Kremlin on remarks on nuclear escalation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 I see we've reached the "Reckless West" stage. Fair play, Covid thread is getting a bit quiet I suppose. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 4 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: Around Lyman the word appears to be that the northern road in to Drobysheve is now cut off at Stavky, while to the south Yampil may or may not have been liberated with the road in now mined. ...but Vlad is about to annex Donetsk oblast so the Russians obviously have nothing to worry about. ^^^ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 26 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkay said: I see we've reached the "Reckless West" stage. Fair play, Covid thread is getting a bit quiet I suppose. I guess it was inevitable the attention-seeking nutjobs on there would eventually realise no one was bothering with the COVID binfire anymore. On the plus side we have lots of pointless graphs to look forward to 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Ignoring the sociopaths who want to derail the thread this advance of the Ukrainians east of the Zherebets river would be significant if accurate: The geopolitics of the next few decades will be decided by the outcome of this conflict and there is a very slight chance of nuclear weapons being used soon after the annexation process is announced so feel no need whatsoever to justify taking an interest in this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Ignoring the sociopaths who want to derail the thread this advance of the Ukrainians east of the Zherebets river would be significant if accurate: The geopolitics of the next few decades will be decided by the outcome of this conflict and there is a very slight chance of nuclear weapons being used soon after the annexation process is announced so feel no need whatsoever to justify taking an interest in this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 52 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said: I guess it was inevitable the attention-seeking nutjobs on there would eventually realise no one was bothering with the COVID binfire anymore. On the plus side we have lots of pointless graphs to look forward to 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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