Russian invasion of Ukraine

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Or you could deduce from the actual fucking war and threat of actual global nuclear annihilation that it was a really fucking stupid idea to continue and indefinitely expand an anti-Soviet alliance after its purpose had been fulfilled.
You are reading backwards Russian intentions to 25 years ago, before they were actually boxed into a (very large) geopolitical corner. There was no inevitability to this outcome. The genesis of a belligerent and revisionist Russia isn't Putin - it is NATO's folly of incorporating eastern Europe, while setting up Ukraine as a hostage to fortune on its extremity. Putin is now attempting to take and use that hostage, for which he should absolutely be condemned. It takes at least two parties to cause an international crisis though, and the warnings were given loud and clear to Western leaders at the time. 

Putin is using NATO as an excuse.

Ultimately this about a Greater Russia taking back territory lost when the Soviet Union disintegrated.

It's simplistic pish to think that if there were no NATO expansion then this wouldn't have happened.

[Mark Connolly]

38 minutes ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

At the beginning Ukraine should have put up the white flag and had non-violent protests against the occupation. 

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to let them just do whatever the f**k they want.

They are bad, and they have guns

[DeeTillEhDeh]

You need a hot mug of calm the hell down.
What is it with all this unnecessary aggression on every single subject you post on? 

You've only just noticed?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Ukrainian hackers have obtained and published the full list of names and details of 120,000 Russian soldiers involved in the invasion.
In my work I've been spending a lot of time on preparation for cyber attacks related to the invasion.  Seems like most of the major attacks have been on Russia - TASS, the state TV hack and now this.  Ukraine had some just before the invasion with banks targeted (some suggestions banks in Russia have been attacked as well) but the internet still seems up.
US defense department have briefed out some of their understanding of the conflict.  US intelligence seem to have been pretty accurate pre-invasion.  Currently, they see the large convoy outside of Kyiv having stalled, probably due to lack of fuel.  Naval infantry haven't yet reached Mariupol but do appear to have landed.  No moves made against Odessa as yet.  A significant number of the Russian soldiers are young conscripts, many were unaware they were being sent into conflict.  Russia has launched more than 400 missiles into Ukraine since the start of the war.

Detournement thinks that's fake news.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

Good to see frivolous accusations of apologism for Putin aren't getting out of hand.

British workers striking in any context for any reason = fifth columnists doing Putin's bidding who might as well be dropping bombs on Ukraine themselves.

Never underestimate a British journalist's ability to turn any event into an opportunity to attack their domestic enemies.

Tacitly supporting the bombing of Kiev by using the Northern Line to get to your work.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Russia is threatening to ban Wikipedia for calling the article on the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine “2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine”.
 

To distinguish it fron the 2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine - the one that Detournement blames on Ukraine.

[ICTChris]

Apple has suspended all sales in Russia. Apple Pay will no longer work there either.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

Love when members of the most socially and economically coddled generations in history scold young people about how the world has never been better and it's mainly just things are shinier and you can swipe a screen to make the internet come on. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Good to see frivolous accusations of apologism for Putin aren't getting out of hand.

British workers striking in any context for any reason = fifth columnists doing Putin's bidding who might as well be dropping bombs on Ukraine themselves.

If there's a relationship it's very much one way.

Old style tankies yearning for the Soviet Union. And I don't think there's much affection the other way from the capitalist Russians.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

22 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

7 hours ago, oaksoft said:

You need a hot mug of calm the hell down.
What is it with all this unnecessary aggression on every single subject you post on? 

You've only just noticed?

 

14 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

5 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Ukrainian hackers have obtained and published the full list of names and details of 120,000 Russian soldiers involved in the invasion.
In my work I've been spending a lot of time on preparation for cyber attacks related to the invasion.  Seems like most of the major attacks have been on Russia - TASS, the state TV hack and now this.  Ukraine had some just before the invasion with banks targeted (some suggestions banks in Russia have been attacked as well) but the internet still seems up.
US defense department have briefed out some of their understanding of the conflict.  US intelligence seem to have been pretty accurate pre-invasion.  Currently, they see the large convoy outside of Kyiv having stalled, probably due to lack of fuel.  Naval infantry haven't yet reached Mariupol but do appear to have landed.  No moves made against Odessa as yet.  A significant number of the Russian soldiers are young conscripts, many were unaware they were being sent into conflict.  Russia has launched more than 400 missiles into Ukraine since the start of the war.

Detournement thinks that's fake news.

 

9 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Russia is threatening to ban Wikipedia for calling the article on the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine “2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine”.
 

To distinguish it fron the 2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine - the one that Detournement blames on Ukraine.

 

5 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

If there's a relationship it's very much one way.

Old style tankies yearning for the Soviet Union. And I don't think there's much affection the other way from the capitalist Russians.

You're a bit of a funny fish sometimes

[Binos]

41 minutes ago, Tony Ferrino said:

Fun fact. This fella is Ukrainian.

All their good players from that era were

Belanov, zavarov etc

Edited March 1, 2022 by Binos

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

7 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to let them just do whatever the f**k they want.

They are bad, and they have guns

We don't know how many of the Russian military involved are comfortable about the situation they find themselves in. 

The situation has to be calmed down to stop the violence not heated up.

I don't think you are pro-violence but the invading Russian army will kill far, far less people if they come up against people that are unarmed and peacefully protesting against the invasion. 

[DiegoDiego]

Love when members of the most socially and economically coddled generations in history scold young people about how the world has never been better and it's mainly just things are shinier and you can swipe a screen to make the internet come on. 

It really isn't, though. There are so many more advances than just the Internet and shiny things.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 minute ago, DiegoDiego said:

 

It really isn't, though. There are so many more advances than just the Internet and shiny things.

Yes I know there have, that was quite clearly flippant. But "advances" don't necessarily mean that the world is "better". That's pure liberal determinism and it's nonsense. 

[Mr Waldo]

9 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

I've been getting my info from a few different sources (including here) but it all seems pretty skewed. So many stories about captured Russian troops but almost none about captured Ukrainian troops. Plenty of other lopsidedness which seems a bit unusual to me.

Obviously I hope Russia take a pumping here, but I'd also like the full picture.

Try out this thread.

[itzdrk]

9 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Yes I know there have, that was quite clearly flippant. But "advances" don't necessarily mean that the world is "better". That's pure liberal determinism and it's nonsense. 

Look at the stuff you can buy

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 minute ago, itzdrk said:

Look at the stuff you can buy

It's also just such a hilariously broad thing to say sitting in western Europe (although I don't think it even really applies to the UK). 

(People in the Maldives who pretty much have to work serving rich white people in luxury hotels while the islands sink around them) - THE WORLD HAS NEVER BEEN BETTER! 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

14 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Yes I know there have, that was quite clearly flippant. But "advances" don't necessarily mean that the world is "better". That's pure liberal determinism and it's nonsense. 

Increases in foodbank use near exponential, home ownership becoming unattainable for the working classes, tory cuts reducing education standards and opportunities, health service barely able to function, the benefits of eu membership removed from us, massive levels of food and fuel poverty, but hey, never had it so good because you can use the internet. f**k me. 

[alta-pete]

I speculated yesterday on the seemingly reckless baws-oot approach of Zelensky. I like the idea of it. 

But then I generally champion anyone who is prepared to challenge the status quo and do it their way. And I am not any sort of world leader (thank f**k).  

Unfortunately the difficulty Ukraine faces is that now they have set themselves down the path of resistance, the more they resist the usual process of deferring to inevitable strength, the heavier the bombardment will become and then the less optimal (?) the inevitable final outcome becomes. 

And then they’ve also armed a guerilla urban army to take potshots at the Russians for as long as they can source munitions. The Russian soldiers/targets will keep being drafted in but the more the Ukrainian mobsters fight you can guarantee the stronger the response. 

That less optimal outcome I mentioned? More deaths all round. And likely also increased territorial demands/infrastructure destruction from the Russians so they can ‘guarantee their people’s safety’. 
 

ETA - those thermobaric bombs scare the fuück out of me. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by alta-pete

[Dan Steele]

Thermobaric bombs? Naw, like all bombs they're fuckin' barbaric.