Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Dons_1988]

My amateur, I’ll informed take is that this is all beginning to get a bit unnerving. 

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

Zelenskyy was happy for proper referendums to be organised and held in return for a ceasefire back in March. That was, of course, before Boris Johnson flew over to have a word, after which he suddenly changed his mind.

You keep claiming Zelenskyy was offered this and would have accepted but for Boris, but I haven't seen anything to back it up. My understanding is that Putin blocked his negotiators from reaching a deal as a ceasefire would stop him gaining more territory, like Kharkiv and Odessa.

[Silvio Tattiescone]

Love the idea that Bumblin' Boris, the second most inept PM in living memory is suddenly the master diplomat capable of deciding the defence policies of foreign countries. The daft c**t probably thought Zelenskey was his plumber. 

[Todd_is_God]

15 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

You keep claiming Zelenskyy was offered this and would have accepted but for Boris, but I haven't seen anything to back it up. My understanding is that Putin blocked his negotiators from reaching a deal as a ceasefire would stop him gaining more territory, like Kharkiv and Odessa.

I posted an excerpt earlier in this thread.

 

6 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said:

Love the idea that Bumblin' Boris, the second most inept PM in living memory is suddenly the master diplomat capable of deciding the defence policies of foreign countries. The daft c**t probably thought Zelenskey was his plumber. 

In the context its not that hard to understand, though, is it? Ukraine are reliant on NATO support, BJ was the NATO spokesperson.

Surely there is no-one who still believes the belligerents in this war are Russia and Ukraine rather than Russia and the NATO Alliance?

Boris Johnson is also, despite the Bumbling Boris public persona, not an idiot.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Todd_is_God

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I posted an excerpt earlier in this thread.

The thread is on its 626th page.

[welshbairn]

Igor's hitchhiking to the battlefront in his shiny new uniform.

 

[Todd_is_God]

12 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The thread is on its 626th page.

That seems like a you problem tbh

[LongTimeLurker]

58 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Zelenskyy was happy for proper referendums to be organised and held in return for a ceasefire back in March. That was, of course, before Boris Johnson flew over to have a word, after which he suddenly changed his mind.

You keep stating that as an established fact, but is it genuinely more than just a rumour at this point? Proper elections held to international standards were part of the Minsk agreements where the so called LNR and DPR are concerned and never happened so I'm skeptical Zelensky would ever have agreed to that.

Edited October 19, 2022 by LongTimeLurker

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

You keep stating that as an established fact, but is it genuinely more than just a rumour at this point? Proper elections held to international standards were part of the Minsk agreements where the so called LNR and DPR are concerned and never happened so I'm skeptical Zelensky would ever have agreed to that.

And it's not like Johnson wasn't nipping over there every time a bad news story appeared about him over here. He probably told them to do the Kherson feint before the Kharkiv offensive too.

[Bairnardo]

58 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

My amateur, I’ll informed take is that this is all beginning to get a bit unnerving. 

Aye, bit concerned myself now tbh. 

Mostly with the idea that my fate can and might well be decided on the whims of a few crusty auld wanks with ego issues. 

[TxRover]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

And it's not like Johnson wasn't nipping over there every time a bad news story appeared about him over here. He probably told them to do the Kherson feint before the Kharkiv offensive too.

Nah, he just headed over there after engineering his ouster and replacement with Truss to take over the Generalship in Ukraine. After he finishes routing the Russians in the south, he’ll be back to triumphantly resume his role as PM.

[Dev]

english.nv.ua/nation/give-putin-a-golden-bridge-for-a-graceful-exit-he-will-destroy-it-wallace-50274264.html

An interesting article re Wallace's trip to the US. I have highlighted/italicised and under-lined the bits which spell out the UK stance. They speak for themselves:

Give Putin a golden bridge for a graceful exit, he will destroy it – Wallace

October 3, 2022, 20:35

 2468

Russian dictator Vladimir Putin had ignored many opportunities to save face and get out of the situation in which he now finds himself, UK Secretary of State for Defense Ben Wallace has said.

During a panel discussion for the ConservativeHome right-wing UK political blog, he said that Putin continues to resort to brutality and is still trying to conquer Ukraine.

“What I mean is, if tomorrow we will build him a golden bridge, he will deliberately destroy it,” said Wallace.

The UK defense minister said that the world cannot let Putin win, otherwise it would result in a global disaster. If the “bandit” remains unstopped, it would mean that all international rules, conventions and agreements can be ignored and all nuclear threats can go without punishment, Wallace said.

“We cannot let him win,” said the UK official.

 

As Wallace put it, the Russian dictator is "an ethnic nationalist who lives in a fantasy about the reunion of the so-called ancient race."

He is not trying to improve the living conditions of his citizens, but instead wants to increase the strength of Russia at the expense of weakening opponents, particularly by dispersing discord in the West through the support of radical right and left forces, the minister added.

Wallace said the UK foreign ministry had advised him against visiting Ukraine on its Independence Day "because it might provoke Putin." He said that despite this, the West remains united in its support for Ukraine.

Earlier, on Sept. 29, Wallace made a secret visit to Ukraine to meet with his Ukrainian colleague Oleksiy Reznikov. Neither the Ukrainian, nor the British side announced his visit until after it was over.

Meanwhile, UK Prime Minister Liz Truss has said London’s aid to Ukraine in 2023 will be worth about GBP 2.3 billion.

During her talks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Sept. 28, Truss said that "Ukraine can count on the support of Great Britain until President Putin is defeated."

[Silvio Tattiescone]

Tbf, I wouldn't put too much store in what Truss says. She could wake up tomorrow and start supporting Putin.

[dorlomin]

1 hour ago, Sweet Pete said:

There definitely feels like there's a pro war mood being pushed in the media, not only with Ukraine and Russia, but also where Belarus, Iran, China and Taiwan are concerned.

bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-63296107

Just a couple of days ago a Chinese diplomat was dragging a protester  into a consulate to assault them. There has been a very bizarre and massive shift in Chinese diplomacy, to the undiplomatic. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_warrior_diplomacy

There is a lot more going on beneath the covers. 

[welshbairn]

31 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said:

Tbf, I wouldn't put too much store in what Truss says. She could wake up tomorrow and start supporting Putin.

Putin just has to tell her that only woksters support Ukraine, right thinking people support a manly man. like what he is.

[Silvio Tattiescone]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Putin just has to tell her that only woksters support Ukraine, right thinking people support a manly man. like what he is.

[ICTChris]

Martial law introduced in the areas of Ukraine Russia is occupying. Strict restrictions also put in place in Russian regions bordering Ukraine.

[Florentine_Pogen]

4 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Martial law introduced in the areas of Ukraine Russia is occupying. Strict restrictions also put in place in Russian regions bordering Ukraine.

Braverman - "Note to self................."

[dorlomin]

6 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Martial law introduced in the areas of Ukraine Russia is occupying. Strict restrictions also put in place in Russian regions bordering Ukraine.

Seem to reassert the previous powers the military had under occupation. There is talk they are dismantling the borders in Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts. 

 

Quote

According to the current legislation, the regime of martial law on the territory of the DPR, LPR, Kherson and Zaporozhye regions can potentially mean the following legal consequences: – Introduce military censorship of shipments and messages, control telephone conversations. – Detain citizens and vehicles for a maximum of 30 days. – Strengthen the protection of public order and the protection of military, important state and special facilities. – Introduce a curfew (forbid citizens to be on the streets and in other public places at certain times of the day). – Prohibit or restrict the travel of citizens outside the region. – Use the media for defense needs. - To arrange a personal search of citizens, their belongings, homes and vehicles. - Seize the property necessary for the needs of defense from organizations and citizens with the payment of its value. - To involve citizens in the performance of work for the needs of defense, in the restoration of destroyed life support systems, in the fight against fires.

 

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

english.nv.ua/nation/give-putin-a-golden-bridge-for-a-graceful-exit-he-will-destroy-it-wallace-50274264.html

An interesting article re Wallace's trip to the US. I have highlighted/italicised and under-lined the bits which spell out the UK stance. They speak for themselves:

Give Putin a golden bridge for a graceful exit, he will destroy it – Wallace

October 3, 2022, 20:35

 2468

Russian dictator Vladimir Putin had ignored many opportunities to save face and get out of the situation in which he now finds himself, UK Secretary of State for Defense Ben Wallace has said.

During a panel discussion for the ConservativeHome right-wing UK political blog, he said that Putin continues to resort to brutality and is still trying to conquer Ukraine.

“What I mean is, if tomorrow we will build him a golden bridge, he will deliberately destroy it,” said Wallace.

The UK defense minister said that the world cannot let Putin win, otherwise it would result in a global disaster. If the “bandit” remains unstopped, it would mean that all international rules, conventions and agreements can be ignored and all nuclear threats can go without punishment, Wallace said.

“We cannot let him win,” said the UK official.

 

As Wallace put it, the Russian dictator is "an ethnic nationalist who lives in a fantasy about the reunion of the so-called ancient race."

He is not trying to improve the living conditions of his citizens, but instead wants to increase the strength of Russia at the expense of weakening opponents, particularly by dispersing discord in the West through the support of radical right and left forces, the minister added.

Wallace said the UK foreign ministry had advised him against visiting Ukraine on its Independence Day "because it might provoke Putin." He said that despite this, the West remains united in its support for Ukraine.

Earlier, on Sept. 29, Wallace made a secret visit to Ukraine to meet with his Ukrainian colleague Oleksiy Reznikov. Neither the Ukrainian, nor the British side announced his visit until after it was over.

Meanwhile, UK Prime Minister Liz Truss has said London’s aid to Ukraine in 2023 will be worth about GBP 2.3 billion.

During her talks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Sept. 28, Truss said that "Ukraine can count on the support of Great Britain until President Putin is defeated."

Wallace seems to have serious pot/kettle issues.