vikingTON Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Game of throw-ins said: I'm perfectly calm and it's a perfectly valid analogy. In 1940 Britain faced invasion by a country led by a brutal dictator. Some people argued that we should throw in the towel because the odds were overwhelming. In 2022 the Ukraine is facing invasion by a country led by a brutal dictator. Some people are arguing that they should throw in the towel because the odds are overwhelming. Are you seeing the comparison yet? The key difference being that Britain in 1940 was an island state, still protected by the world's most powerful navy and a very capable air force. The actual chances of a successful German invasion and occupation therefore remained very low. If the Germans finished off the entire army at Dunkirk or by some bizarre turn of fortune took out a huge number of ships/planes out in battle, then Britain would likely have sent arch appeaser Lord Halifax to see what terms he could get from that misunderstood chap Mr. Hitler. Ukrainians today do not face even remotely the same choices. Edited February 25, 2022 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 NATO is a waste of everyone's time and money and i think it would be better for humanity if it was disbanded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, AlbionSaint said: I can't deal with this any more to be honest. The world just seems to be going crazy. Two years of a pandemic and now this. I have been following it too closely and it's genuinely affecting my mental health. If this escalates there could genuinely be nuclear war. I can't take any more of it. I didn't mean to upset anyone, btw. Over and out. I find it a comfort to think that many (maybe most) people in Scotland are completely oblivious to what's happening in Ukraine. It's a pretty good way to make sure your mental health isn't affected by what's happening. And only worry about things you can affect. Edited February 25, 2022 by sparky88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, Game of throw-ins said: I'm perfectly calm and it's a perfectly valid analogy. In 1940 Britain faced invasion by a country led by a brutal dictator. Some people argued that we should throw in the towel because the odds were overwhelming. In 2022 the Ukraine is facing invasion by a country led by a brutal dictator. Some people are arguing that they should throw in the towel because the odds are overwhelming. Are you seeing the comparison yet? For an analogy to work the two things being compared need to be alike in some respects and different in others. Finding a difference does not, as you bizarrely imagine, invalidate the analogy. If there were no differences it would not be an analogy: you would just be comparing something with itself. Hitler and Putin are alike in some respects, different in others. They are both brutal, murderous, dictators who sought to invade other countries in pursuit of imperialist ambitions. For the purposes of my argument they are analagous. As for: What are Zelensky's options? 1) Unconditional surrender 2) Negotiate 3) Fight to the last man What does (3) actually achieve? Serious question. Some people have always prized freedom from life under a brutal foreign dictator over mere survival. The Few in the Battle of Britain for example. We are massively indebted to them. What (3) achieves is keeping that principle alive. I can think of nothing more important. Yeah not really comparable. There were never any German tanks in London, for example. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David W Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, WATTOO said: Oh dear, this isn't going to end well...... Both the Ministry of Defence and the Interior Ministry are appealing to Kyiv residents to "inform us of troop movements, to make Molotov cocktails and neutralise the enemy". A leaflet with step-by step instructions of how to make petrol bombs has been posted on the Ministry of the Interior's social media. Interior Ministry adviser Vadym Denysenko says 18,000 machine guns "have been handed out in Kyiv to all volunteers, all those who want to defend our capital with weapons in their arms". Replace machine guns with pitchforks and that's pretty much the first episode of Dad's Army. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Talk of Russia recognising Zelenskiy as President in return for commitment to neutrality, eg. no attempts to join NATO or EU.Which has been Putin's aim all along.He wants a buffer.No doubt if there is a deal then Russia keeps the Donbas and Crimea as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 It's just an analysis of the situation. What are Zelensky's options? 1) Unconditional surrender 2) Negotiate 3) Fight to the last man What does (3) actually achieve? Serious question.The only way you get 2) is if the Ukrainians show they will continue the fight as a guerilla war if there isn't a negotiated settlement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) Sirens blaring in central Kiev. Edited February 25, 2022 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Snafu said: British troops have arrived in Estonia. They'll have set off earlier in the month regardless, there'll have been another battlegroup due to take over within the next couple of months. 52 minutes ago, Left Back said: Heard on the news yesterday that we have about 200 tanks. France and Germany roughly similar numbers (200-300ish). Ukraine about the same. Russia has about 13,000 I think they said. Wouldn't be much of a tank battle. Tanks are an over simplistic view to judge a nations capabilites, with the advancement in drone and javelin technology they are no longer the barometer of success as compared to the old theaters that you'll have seen in WW2 for example, air superiority counts for allot here and its in that which Ukraine will struggle, if they had that they'd be able to pick off these columns with ease. Don't get me wrong, the UK has massively fucked its procurement process for armoured vehicles for the last couple of decades, spunking billions Up the wall on Ajax while not adequately replacing CVR(t) was very silly, if you look at the armoured capability from the 1st gulf War it's still remarkably similar, that's 30 years ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Mr. Alli said: Where do you get these. They're fucking brilliant. Typing any descriptor after "wojak" is usually the way to find them. In this instance, "dumb wojak". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 50 minutes ago, TheScarf said: Putin and Zelensky both giving it the 'lets meet for talks' now. Netflix and chill. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 I am curious how close Russia is to financial ruin, their currency dropped below the value of Robux, the online game currency from the kids game Roblox. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glennie Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 8 hours ago, Melanius Mullarkay said: FTFY b*****ding thing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said: Typing any descriptor after "wojak" is usually the way to find them. In this instance, "dumb wojak". @AlbionSaint I reckon.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said: I am curious how close Russia is to financial ruin, their currency dropped below the value of Robux, the online game currency from the kids game Roblox. Should we all be buying Russian money and waiting for the rise to come? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Is this now a wojak thread? Spoiler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Should we all be buying Russian money and waiting for the rise to come?Presumably you can't.It's probably a restricted ccy at the moment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Grant228 said: They'll have set off earlier in the month regardless, there'll have been another battlegroup due to take over within the next couple of months. Tanks are an over simplistic view to judge a nations capabilites, with the advancement in drone and javelin technology they are no longer the barometer of success as compared to the old theaters that you'll have seen in WW2 for example, air superiority counts for allot here and its in that which Ukraine will struggle, if they had that they'd be able to pick off these columns with ease. Don't get me wrong, the UK has massively fucked its procurement process for armoured vehicles for the last couple of decades, spunking billions Up the wall on Ajax while not adequately replacing CVR(t) was very silly, if you look at the armoured capability from the 1st gulf War it's still remarkably similar, that's 30 years ago. Albeit if Ajax works as advertised once they fix the vibration issues it may well be worth the hassle. I suspect the army would have canned it in favour of putting the recon and comms equipment into a Boxer variant if they were sure they'd have gotten funding for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Richie said: Presumably you can't. It's probably a restricted ccy at the moment. Looks like I can on my Revolt account, if I do am I in effect funding the Russian war machine? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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