Energy Prices

[BFTD]

4 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Genuinely not sure tbh.

It will be interesting to see NS's reaction if both happen, though. I expect her to brass neckenly complain about them, but not about the impact they will ultimately have on reducing energy bills / increasing energy security.

She'll be away by 2026, which is when the next one is supposed to be opening: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nuclear-energy-what-you-need-to-know

Fingers crossed that her successor can evoke such chronic seethe!

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

I see Kwasi Kwarteng assures people "help is coming"
After all the chatter in the last week I'll be stunned, tbh, if something close to the following doesn't play out:
- Ofgem, as expected, announce the October price cap will be £3,576.
- Upon becoming the PM, Liz Truss declares that she is going to reduce the cap to somewhere between £1,971 and £3,576 and freeze it there until January 2025. This will be bank funded which will allow instead the Gov to fund relief for SMEs. This will be recovered by increasing VAT on energy bills once wholesale prices return to more sensible levels.
- the £400 household grant will still be applied, but will now be recovered by stealth by freezing the personal allowance down the line.
- the merit order is reformed and wholesale electricity costs are linked to the average cost to generate it, rather than the most expensive fuel.
- new nuclear power plants and fracking are re-explored

I think that's exactly what will happen, think they'll go with £2,800 (£2,400 after grant applied).

Any other solution could require the billing companies to have to update their code to handling things like unit price based on consumption.

[101]

13 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

I see Kwasi Kwarteng assures people "help is coming"

I like that he did so in the pages of a rag bought by folk voting in the next PM anyone who doesn't read that might have missed this important government announcement which once again has been lodged in the press before presenting it through normal government forums.

[101]

So now the smart meters are not just minimising waste but trying to avoid use at peak times, there is obviously already off peak tariffs for charging cars but this is a new one £6 per kWh is a pretty nice saving, I guess likes of when you go on holiday you would be able to claim back for not using electricity during peak times?

[Gnash]

1 hour ago, 101 said:

So now the smart meters are not just minimising waste but trying to avoid use at peak times, there is obviously already off peak tariffs for charging cars but this is a new one £6 per kWh is a pretty nice saving, I guess likes of when you go on holiday you would be able to claim back for not using electricity during peak times?

The devil will be in the detail of this.  How are they supposed to measure what you are not using?  And £6 per kWh is an unrealistically high figure compared to current prices of around 27p.  Selling off peak electricity at 6p per kWh less than the peak rate seems more likely.

[Michael W]

A policy that will help absolutely no-one that doesn't have a smart meter; so probably a lot of the people most in need of help. 

[Todd_is_God]

20 minutes ago, Gnash said:

The devil will be in the detail of this.  How are they supposed to measure what you are not using?  And £6 per kWh is an unrealistically high figure compared to current prices of around 27p.  Selling off peak electricity at 6p per kWh less than the peak rate seems more likely.

Given that a kWh of electricity is currently projected to hit 94p in July, 6p off during off peak times will be largely useless.

Energy price projections are going to keep screaming up this week as well as NordStream is being turned off totally from August 31st - September 2nd for maintenance. Would not be surprised if April's projection is above £7,000 by the end of the week.

[101]

49 minutes ago, Michael W said:

A policy that will help absolutely no-one that doesn't have a smart meter; so probably a lot of the people most in need of help. 

Can a pre pay meter tell when you are using it?

[Todd_is_God]

 

How high can the Western world allow this to go before telling Zelenskyy he's on his own?

[beefybake]

2 hours ago, 101 said:

Can a pre pay meter tell when you are using it?

Yes.

I'm sure I used to hear mine say..

"...Ooft. Come on mate, I need more than a £5 ers worth..."

[beefybake]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

An alternative question - how much profiteering are global governments prepared to allow before they realise it's killing their own citizens and destroying their election chances?

Another one would be - at what point do the executives of these profiteering companies realise that because of their actions, they are no longer safe walking down their own streets during the day?

These people might want to ponder the possibility that if a day of violence occurs, it might not be quite so much rioting in the streets but more akin to what happened in France and Russia where those in charge were systematically "removed".

Well, I remember the poll tax riots..., the one in Trafalger Square was I think when the Tories realised the game was up for Thatcher and that policy. They removed her, and to some extent that saved their bacon for some more years.

This time round, the current Westminster government are prisoners of their own ideologies.... privatisation, de-regulation, toothless 'regulators', the 'wisdom' of the markets.  The full spectrum of their policies, not just one.

They've all failed.  The government does have to go. If, though, what you're suggesting by 'removal' is more akin to the sound of tumbrils rolling, then democracy has also failed.

Edited August 22, 2022 by beefybake

[Detournement]

3 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

 

How high can the Western world allow this to go before telling Zelenskyy he's on his own?

It's not just about Ukraine. 

It's about big corporations and banks seeing their profits going through the roof at the expense of small businesses. 

[Hard Graft]

Sturgeon moaning that lives will be lost unless something is done.  She really is shameless - who announced a low cost energy company and then later cancelled it.  Bet the press will not ask her that.

[Billy Jean King]

Sturgeon moaning that lives will be lost unless something is done.  She really is shameless - who announced a low cost energy company and then later cancelled it.  Bet the press will not ask her that.

Not going through with that given where we are now was very lucky / tremendous foresight. That model was completely untenable in the current market and a huge bullet dodged for the SG.

[Todd_is_God]

24 minutes ago, Detournement said:

It's not just about Ukraine. 

It's about big corporations and banks seeing their profits going through the roof at the expense of small businesses. 

They might be seeing profits go up, but it's not like they are doing so by artificially increasing the wholesale price - the wholesale price is going up because there isn't enough to go round so whoever wants it most pays most for it. How do you regulate that globally?

Governments can, of course, windfall tax these profits to be able to provide support to domestic end users, but that won't itself reduce the wholesale price - if anything it will accelerate the increase further.

Put simply, there are only 2 ways to bring that down - reduce usage (in the short term, going in to winter, not going to happen), or increase supply.

The Russian army have proven they are a bit of a gang. Leave Ukraine to deal with them now they've been supplied with modern weapons. Restoring NS1 to 100% capacity and getting NS2 online is the priority now for the west.

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

30 minutes ago, Hard Graft said:

Sturgeon moaning that lives will be lost unless something is done.  She really is shameless - who announced a low cost energy company and then later cancelled it.  Bet the press will not ask her that.

Not going through with that given where we are now was very lucky / tremendous foresight. That model was completely untenable in the current market and a huge bullet dodged for the SG.

Yes, but the calls from the gormless public to "renationalise energy to keep the price down" show a glaring ignorance imo.

[101]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

The Russian army have proven they are a bit of a gang. Leave Ukraine to deal with them now they've been supplied with modern weapons. Restoring NS1 to 100% capacity and getting NS2 online is the priority now for the west.

Would they do it? I mean sure it sounds great but it's Russia holding back gas reserves and even if Europe eased it's support it Ukraine is there any guarantee that the gas would then flow freely. Somehow I doubt Russia would go to 100% on NS1 let alone get NS2 online.

[Todd_is_God]

4 minutes ago, 101 said:

Would they do it? I mean sure it sounds great but it's Russia holding back gas reserves and even if Europe eased it's support it Ukraine is there any guarantee that the gas would then flow freely. Somehow I doubt Russia would go to 100% on NS1 let alone get NS2 online.

They are holding them back in response to sanctions. No reason why they would not be open in return for lifting sanctions and sending no more military aid to Ukraine.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

Yes, but the calls from the gormless public to "renationalise energy to keep the price down" show a glaring ignorance imo.

get the price of renewable electricity fucking well unpegged from the price of gas would be a start

you facking cahnts

[beefybake]

2 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Yes, but the calls from the gormless public to "renationalise energy to keep the price down" show a glaring ignorance imo.

Actually, it's your views that are gormless, and the way you've manipulated what people have been saying is mendacious.  If the energy companies were nationalised, there would be an immediate mechanism whereby a government could control the prices available to retail, and business customers.  

What there is right now is a failed 'free market' system, that's squealing to the government for a bail out.  As in ' privatising the profits, socializing the losses'..., in it's own way, just like the banking crash of 2007/2008.   As energy is a basic utility, it absolutely should never have been privatised. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by beefybake